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Old 01-14-2018, 07:05 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
The irony here is that the Christian says that the Law was done away with, but in reality it was just replaced with another [more stringent?] Law...
Actually, you're way off base because you're missing the key factor: LOVE

1 John 5
[3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
[4] For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
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Old 01-14-2018, 07:06 AM
 
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Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
And all along I thought Jesus was the source of all knowledge...
The Holy Bible is the revelation of Jesus by faith through the Spirit -- and the engine is love.
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Old 01-14-2018, 07:32 AM
 
Location: US
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Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
Actually, you're way off base because you're missing the key factor: LOVE

1 John 5
[3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
[4] For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
How am I way off base?...You haven't shown it...
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Old 01-14-2018, 07:37 AM
 
Location: US
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Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
That's self righteousness -- which is as filthy rags before God.
No, it is not...The whole point of the Torah is to improve oneself by following the Torah...Most people do not desire to better themselves as human beings...
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Old 01-14-2018, 07:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
No, it is not...The whole point of the Torah is to improve oneself by following the Torah...Most people do not desire to better themselves as human beings...
Even your prophet, who you claim to believe, spoke of it.

Isaiah 64
[6] But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
[7] And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.
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Old 01-14-2018, 08:07 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
Even your prophet, who you claim to believe, spoke of it.

Isaiah 64
[6] But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
[7] And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.
Yeshayahu - Isaiah - Chapter 64

5 And we all have become like one unclean, and like a discarded garment are all our righteous deeds, and we all have withered like a leaf, and our iniquities carry us away like the wind.


6 And no one calls in Your name, arouses himself to cling to You, when You hid Your countenance from us, and You caused us to wander through our iniquities.


It is part of a prayer...What is your point?...G-d is talking about those that have strayed, not all of Israel, because further down He mentions the righteous of Israel...

Your cherry picking of verses is not an honest thing to do...
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Old 01-14-2018, 08:19 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Yeshayahu - Isaiah - Chapter 64

5 And we all have become like one unclean, and like a discarded garment are all our righteous deeds, and we all have withered like a leaf, and our iniquities carry us away like the wind.


6 And no one calls in Your name, arouses himself to cling to You, when You hid Your countenance from us, and You caused us to wander through our iniquities.


It is part of a prayer...What is your point?...G-d is talking about those that have strayed, not all of Israel, because further down He mentions the righteous of Israel...

Your cherry picking of verses is not an honest thing to do...
The verse is speaking of [self] righteousness outside of God. Jesus explained:

Mark 7
[5] Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him [Jesus], Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
[6] He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias [Isaiah] prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
[7] Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctines the commandments of men.
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Old 01-14-2018, 08:43 AM
 
Location: US
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Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
The verse is speaking of [self] righteousness outside of God. Jesus explained:

Mark 7
[5] Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him [Jesus], Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
[6] He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias [Isaiah] prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
[7] Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctines the commandments of men.
I don't care what your Jesus explained...That is not speaking of self righteousness outside of G-d...

Yeshayahu - Isaiah - Chapter 29


13 And the Lord said: "Because this people has come near; with their mouth and with their lips they honor Me, but their heart they draw far away from Me, and their fear of Me has become a command of people, which has been taught.

Rashi:

Because this people has come near: Jonathan renders: Because this people has aggrandized itself. I.e., they have come near to raise themselves up to the heavens. They show themselves as though honoring Me with mouth and lip, but their heart they have drawn far away from Me.
*

and their fear of Me has become: not wholehearted, but by the command of the people who teach them, they show themselves as humbled before Him in order to entice Him with your mouth.


Looks like the quote has been modified in the Christian New Testament...Because it does not say exactly what it says in the Tanakh, modifying it to give a different sense then what was originally meant...
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Old 01-14-2018, 08:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
How about just making the effort to be a good person?...
Jesus said Mar 10:18

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

I believe him... I have yet to see anything remotely GOOD or PURE from mankind. even the best is a little or a lot tainted.. with sewer water... even one drop makes it nearly undrinkable except for those near thirsting to death. and ONLY the Spirit of God can take us to the place where every day there is just a little less sewer in the cup and thus LIFE restoring, instead of giving the nearly dying Montezuma's revenge too...
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Old 01-14-2018, 08:49 AM
 
Location: US
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Originally Posted by n..Xuipa View Post
Jesus said Mar 10:18

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

I believe him... I have yet to see anything remotely GOOD or PURE from mankind. even the best is a little or a lot tainted.. with sewer water... even one drop makes it nearly undrinkable except for those near thirsting to death. and ONLY the Spirit of God can take us to the place where every day there is just a little less sewer in the cup.
...
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