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Old 03-16-2018, 09:20 PM
 
Location: NSW
3,797 posts, read 2,992,667 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geekigurl View Post
Starting at 21, Paul explains that former believers exchanged their belief in God for idols made to look like mortal human beings, birds, and animals and reptiles. Then he goes on to explain the consequences of their idolatry.
SO what are the consequences of idolatry?
And former believers were never believers in the first place, or so we are told by low church Evangelicals.
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Old 03-17-2018, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Anderson, IN
6,855 posts, read 2,843,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek41 View Post
SO what are the consequences of idolatry?

"He gave them over to a depraved mind..." etc, etc.

Quote:
And former believers were never believers in the first place, or so we are told by low church Evangelicals.
I don't agree. I know some people who were Christians at one time, but decided that atheism fit them best.

Last edited by mensaguy; 03-17-2018 at 11:03 AM.. Reason: quote missing
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Old 03-17-2018, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Townsville
6,790 posts, read 2,897,870 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek41 View Post
SO what are the consequences of idolatry?
God's wrath whatever form that might take. God states over and over that He and He alone must be worshiped ...or else! We probably should also consider that it IS Paul who is doing the talking or the writing here. And, Paul may well be using some dramatic license with regard to what God did or will do to those who practice idolatry. I mean, how would Paul know that 'God gave them over to a depraved mind...etc'.?

Last edited by RomulusXXV; 03-17-2018 at 09:29 AM..
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Old 03-17-2018, 02:07 PM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,016,467 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomulusXXV View Post
God's wrath whatever form that might take. God states over and over that He and He alone must be worshiped ...or else! We probably should also consider that it IS Paul who is doing the talking or the writing here. And, Paul may well be using some dramatic license with regard to what God did or will do to those who practice idolatry. I mean, how would Paul know that 'God gave them over to a depraved mind...etc'.?
Paul might be talking about pagans because he definitely wasn’t talking about the Jews or maybe he was talking about the northern Kingdom of Israel....
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Old 03-17-2018, 05:09 PM
 
Location: NSW
3,797 posts, read 2,992,667 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geekigurl View Post
"He gave them over to a depraved mind..." etc, etc.

I don't agree. I know some people who were Christians at one time, but decided that atheism fit them best.
Well we certainly agree on the 2nd point.
Born again Christians simply cannot accept the fact that people can leave the faith, and were real Christians to begin with.
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Old 03-17-2018, 05:18 PM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,567,423 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomulusXXV View Post
This question is for Christians and particularly for those Christians who STILL use Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13 to aim at gay people in an attempt to make them squirm.

The question is an easy one to answer. It's either 'yes' or 'no'. However, if it is 'yes' then a brief explanation will be required.

The question: Do you HONESTLY give a damn about ANY of the commands of Leviticus?

This could be a very short thread .. .
its more of "do I care that some people take it literally?"

yes, I do. literally true or literally false means they may be a danger to the rest of us.
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Old 03-17-2018, 11:26 PM
 
4,432 posts, read 6,980,938 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Paul might be talking about pagans because he definitely wasn’t talking about the Jews or maybe he was talking about the northern Kingdom of Israel....
The Northern Kingdom of Israel did not exist during Paul time, and only existed hundreds of years before that.

An idol is craving and really desiring, craving or more satisfying something more than God. It is where the heart is and God knows all our hearts. It can mean loving or wanting someone more than God. It goes against Jesus first greatest commandment of: Love God all your heart, all your mind and strength.
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Old 03-18-2018, 07:46 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,016,467 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by other99 View Post
The Northern Kingdom of Israel did not exist during Paul time, and only existed hundreds of years before that.
Point out where the Jews of that day were committing the things listed by Paul...What Paul was stating was not about former Christians being given over nor the Jews either, however, the Northern Kingdom of Israel had been guilty of those things, so G-d gave them over and exiled them into the Gentile nations where they have lost their identity...

Quote:
An idol is craving and really desiring, craving or more satisfying something more than God. It is where the heart is and God knows all our hearts. It can mean loving or wanting someone more than God.

An idol is something that G-d has not commanded...

Quote:
It goes against Jesus first greatest commandment of: Love God all your heart, all your mind and strength.
Looks like it was G-d's...


Devarim - Deuteronomy - Chapter 6

4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord is our God; the Lord is one.

5 And you shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul, and with all your means.
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Old 03-19-2018, 03:54 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
11,895 posts, read 3,683,545 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Paul might be talking about pagans because he definitely wasn’t talking about the Jews or maybe he was talking about the northern Kingdom of Israel....
What do you think about Jeremiah?

Jer 1:15 For behold, I am calling all the tribes of the kingdoms of the north, declares the LORD, and they shall come, and every one shall set his throne at the entrance of the gates of Jerusalem, against all its walls all around and against all the cities of Judah.
Jer 1:16 And I will declare my judgments against them, for all their evil in forsaking me. They have made offerings to other gods and worshiped the works of their own hands.
Jer 1:17 But you, dress yourself for work; arise, and say to them everything that I command you. Do not be dismayed by them, lest I dismay you before them.
Jer 1:18 And I, behold, I make you this day a fortified city, an iron pillar, and bronze walls, against the whole land, against the kings of Judah, its officials, its priests, and the people of the land.
Jer 1:19 They will fight against you, but they shall not prevail against you, for I am with you, declares the LORD, to deliver you.”

Jer 5:9 Shall I not punish them for these things? declares the LORD; and shall I not avenge myself on a nation such as this?
Jer 5:10 “Go up through her vine rows and destroy, but make not a full end; strip away her branches, for they are not the LORD's.
Jer 5:11 For the house of Israel and the house of Judah have been utterly treacherous to me, declares the LORD.
Jer 5:12 They have spoken falsely of the LORD and have said, ‘He will do nothing; no disaster will come upon us, nor shall we see sword or famine.
Jer 5:13 The prophets will become wind; the word is not in them. Thus shall it be done to them!’”

Jer 5:20 Declare this in the house of Jacob; proclaim it in Judah:
Jer 5:21 “Hear this, O foolish and senseless people, who have eyes, but see not, who have ears, but hear not.
Jer 5:22 Do you not fear me? declares the LORD. Do you not tremble before me? I placed the sand as the boundary for the sea, a perpetual barrier that it cannot pass; though the waves toss, they cannot prevail; though they roar, they cannot pass over it.
Jer 5:23 But this people has a stubborn and rebellious heart; they have turned aside and gone away.
Jer 5:24 They do not say in their hearts, ‘Let us fear the LORD our God, who gives the rain in its season, the autumn rain and the spring rain, and keeps for us the weeks appointed for the harvest.’

Jer 5:27 Like a cage full of birds, their houses are full of deceit; therefore they have become great and rich;
Jer 5:28 they have grown fat and sleek. They know no bounds in deeds of evil; they judge not with justice the cause of the fatherless, to make it prosper, and they do not defend the rights of the needy.
Jer 5:29 Shall I not punish them for these things? declares the LORD, and shall I not avenge myself on a nation such as this?”
Jer 5:30 An appalling and horrible thing has happened in the land:
Jer 5:31 the prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests rule at their direction; my people love to have it so, but what will you do when the end comes?

Jer 6:6 For thus says the LORD of hosts: “Cut down her trees; cast up a siege mound against Jerusalem. This is the city that must be punished; there is nothing but oppression within her.
Jer 6:7 As a well keeps its water fresh, so she keeps fresh her evil; violence and destruction are heard within her; sickness and wounds are ever before me.

Jer 6:13 “For from the least to the greatest of them, everyone is greedy for unjust gain; and from prophet to priest, everyone deals falsely

Jer 7:21 Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: “Add your burnt offerings to your sacrifices, and eat the flesh.
Jer 7:22 For in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to your fathers or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices.
Jer 7:23 But this command I gave them: ‘Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be my people. And walk in all the way that I command you, that it may be well with you.’
Jer 7:24 But they did not obey or incline their ear, but walked in their own counsels and the stubbornness of their evil hearts, and went backward and not forward.
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Old 03-19-2018, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Anderson, IN
6,855 posts, read 2,843,045 times
Reputation: 4194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek41 View Post
Well we certainly agree on the 2nd point.
Born again Christians simply cannot accept the fact that people can leave the faith, and were real Christians to begin with.
Some of us can't, though I have no idea why. The idea that Christians who leave the faith were never 'real' to begin with seems to me a variation of "no true Scotsman."
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