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Your theologians? Nate, I’m a middle-aged man with a college degree and an above average IQ. I can determine my own theology and express it myself. If you can’t give me respect, I will no longer converse with you.
So it actually has nothing to do with what you have been taught your whole life? Ummmm bye bye.
I only reject the things that contradict the Holy Spirit as described and demonstrated by Jesus. You accept the corrupt contradictions of the Holy Spirit created by fallible human beings using their ancient ignorance about God. Accept that God IS love and stop venerating the vengeance of men in the corrupt "precepts and doctrines of men."
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
Accept that God is holy and just.
15But just as He who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do, 16for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.” 17Since you call on a Father who judges each man’s work impartially, live your lives in reverent fear during your temporary stay on earth.
1 Peter 1
I keep telling you Jesus described in detail what is Holy in the Sermon on the Mount, 1 Cor 13, and Galatians 5. Men added what is just using their lust for vengeance. There is nothing in the Holy Spirit that remotely suggests vengeance and nothing in Christ's scourging and crucifixion that remotely suggest God is vengeful. Jesus smote no one and loved even His torturers and murderers. Do you or do you not believe that when we see Jesus we see the Father, Jimmie?
Your theologians? Nate, I’m a middle-aged man with a college degree and an above average IQ. I can determine my own theology and express it myself. If you can’t give me respect, I will no longer converse with you.
Show the same respect you ask for yourself, from those who have also done their own searching, and have come to different conclusions.
How can the Lord save such a hard headed group of people that mock the Scrpture and refuse to recognize his Son? Will He give them a pass even though they may be lower than rapists and murderers?
That is not in God’s nature. He is a God of love but also a Righteous Judge. He cannot ignore their transgression and therefore, they will die in their sins.
15But just as He who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do, 16for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.” 17Since you call on a Father who judges each man’s work impartially, live your lives in reverent fear during your temporary stay on earth.
1 Peter 1
The God is holy card again. You don't know what holy is , so why keep quoting it as if you do. If you do know, give an example of what it is, preferably from something you see or have read about Jesus Christ.
I don't think any of the regular posters on the Christian forum are UU. There are some posters who believe in universal reconciliation/restoration/salvation. But there is no organized denomination. The other beliefs among those Christians who believe that God is saving all people vary widely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
Electron, very few of us are UU. Most of the people you are addressing DO believe in Universal Redemption, which is just one of the perceptions of the UUs. You should understand the difference. As far as I know that summary is true on UU, not so much of UR.
Thanks for the responses, and sorry I had to run yesterday. (I'm currently working 6-12s and was dealing with snow and ice) Anyway, I think what I am having such a hard time with is this: I grew up in church, confirmed at age 13, the whole nine yards. I had the occasional run in with any and all types of Christians and varying factions thereof for years. Not until I was 41 years old did I 'discover' if you will, the Reformed doctrines of Grace. It was then that I came to know repentance and faith. There has been more growth and maturity in my life these last few years than all of the previous 41. So I see what y'all post about 'fundies' or Calvinists, and I just don't get it. I am less hateful, mean spirited, or self centered now than I ever was, to God be the glory. Not until becoming reformed did I become more aware of my own sinful nature, and therefore more understanding of others. My understanding of grace is obviously different than yours, but I just don't get the hostility. It gives the appearance of inconsistency in your worldview, be it UU, UR, or whatever else.
If someone denies main parts of the Bible that was fully inspired by the Holy Spirit, how can they know who God is? They must make a god based on their own understanding or desires. That breaks the 1st Commandment.
And, if they are worshiping a false god how can they be saved?
This is nonsense.
What are the main parts of the Bible? The use of the term "main parts" assumes that there are minor, insignificant portions of the Bible. Perhaps you're referring to the Book of Ruth? Paul's letter to Philemon? Which books constitute your core belief?
What is a discerning reader supposed to do with the Synoptic Gospels that each describes key events in Christ's life differently? After all, Matthew, Mark, and Luke each have utterly different accounts of Christ's last words on the cross, each with completely different theological import. In my estimate, those would be kind of important to get right. Yet they don't agree.
What is a discerning reader supposed to do with scriptural texts that have apparently changed over time? A notable example is the famous passage of John where Christ defends the adulterous woman to the crowd, asking those without sin to cast the first stone. That passage is nowhere to be found in the earliest manuscripts of John. The best guess is that it was added sometime in the 2nd or 3rd Century.
What about scriptural glosses and contradictions? I mean, point out the two completely different genealogies of Christ in Matthew and Luke, where the two accounts can't even agree on Christ's grandfather, and you will get some incredible mental gymnastics on the part of the literalists. They can't simply accept that two men, who were writing their accounts years after Christ's miraculous journey on earth, couldn't run down to the local probate court to verify their separate accounts with birth records. Nope. Literalists have to offer up convoluted theories that women were not counted in genealogies despite the Bible being otherwise rife with the lore of women and their offspring. The irony that these people are reduced to heavily interpreting scripture in order to defend a literalist point of view should not be lost on anyone.
The problem with the belief in scriptural inerrancy is that it assumes the Bible was delivered intact on earth by the Holy Spirit, much like the golden plates of the Book of Mormon. Their minds fry at the fact that scripture was slowly assembled over time, wrangled over by committees, written decades or even centuries after the actual events described took place, and often have unreliable narrators who are products of their place, time, and culture.
And, of course, they choose their own "main parts" of the Bible, while cheerfully ignoring inconvenient parts and passages. As one example, I'm amazed at the number of evangelicals who insist on public prayer in classrooms, football games, or the opening of a Burger King down the street while ignoring Christ's admonition to not pray in public. I mean, heck, it's right there in the Sermon on the Mount, Christ's chief teaching about how His followers are supposed to conduct themselves in the world, and the fundies behave as if that passage does not exist.
But even more problematic is this: Insistence on an inerrant Bible is not faith in things unseen, but rather the belief in evidence, an empirical worldview propelled by evidence. I've never been to Australia, but don't need faith that it exists because it can be found in the pages of the Encyclopedia Brittanica. On the other hand, I can read about God's workings in the world and Christ's ministry to us and believe in those things without worrying about the imperfect retelling in places.
One important aspect of Christ's ministry is his antipathy to the Pharisees, the men who obsessed over the letter of the law rather than the spirit of justice. He railed against how twisted the message of God's love and our duty to one another becomes subsumed in orthodoxy. In that sense, I would argue that the literalists are pharisaical for not just their obeisance to the Bible, but rather the selective nature of it.
Last edited by MinivanDriver; 03-22-2018 at 06:48 AM..
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