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I've been in hell. It's not a single location. It moves around. I found myself in the middle of hell in lower Manhattan on the 11th of September, 2001.
But I do know where heaven is! There is a beautiful lake, and many trees, all sorts of interesting birds and animals and a feeling of serenity and the nearness of God that I've never experienced anywhere else except at the edge of the ocean. And you'd never guess who else is there.
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 05-04-2018 at 06:41 AM..
Reason: Corrected "everywhere" to "anywhere". Not enough cawfee.
I've been in hell. It's not a single location. It moves around. I found myself in the middle of hell in lower Manhattan on the 11th of September, 2001.
But I do know where heaven is! There is a beautiful lake, and many trees, all sorts of interesting birds and animals and a feeling of serenity and the nearness of God that I've never experienced anywhere else except at the edge of the ocean. And you'd never guess who else is there.
Last edited by mensaguy; 05-04-2018 at 08:34 AM..
Reason: Edited quoted post to match MQ's edit
Feel free to call it a lie. No one has claimed to know the location of it, or location of heaven, or anything else in hereafter. I suppose you call heaven a lie too, or anything else you cannot see or touch, or find on the map.
IMO, 2 Thessalonians gives the most meaningful description of it by saying you will be eternally separated from God and all His creation. It does not need to be a specific physical location.
Thank you Finn, at least that was an attempt. There is no such place, however, whether physical or spiritual. Hell is just another term for the grave and any extra padding that Jesus might have added was solely metaphorical. I think you know, Finn, deep down, that the awful 'eternal torment' belief is inconsistent with the notion of a just, moral, and benevolent God.
This has been a long thread. I asked a question some pages back and it may have been answered. But, I doubt it. So, I'll ask it again.
For those of you (several of you) who absolutely believe in the reality of an actual hell where 'the wicked' will be tormented for ever and ever and ever, etc. etc. . . .does this place have a geographical location? If hell IS an actual place then it has to exist somewhere. So, where is hell located?
If we're to believe in hell as you do, then please be as precise re its location as is possible. Otherwise I for one am going to call ...lie!
I have to ask. Can the believers in hell and eternal torment really not understand why others believe the version of God that you believe in to be less powerful and less loving than the version the UR folks believe in, where God ultimately succeeds in doing what he claims he wants to do and saves everyone, and is not limited in his love ?
The God of ET saves only a limited few, and allows those he cant save to suffer forever.
The God of UR fulfills his plan to save everyone, and has unconditional love for all of creation.
I have to ask. Can the believers in hell and eternal torment really not understand why others believe the version of God that you believe in to be less powerful and less loving than the version the UR folks believe in, where God ultimately succeeds in doing what he claims he wants to do and saves everyone, and is not limited in his love ?
The God of ET saves only a limited few, and allows those he cant save to suffer forever.
The God of UR fulfills his plan to save everyone, and has unconditional love for all of creation.
Which is the more powerful and loving version?
It all comes down to a person actually knowing the religion of God so that they know what is meant. All those idioms of hell are about the outer court and the outer court still has salvation. You read scriptures of hell, and you are reading idioms of the feast of Tabernacles and who receives the rain verses the people who don't receive the rain and are then sent to the outer court. The people who receive the rain of Tabernacles are transformed into immortal beings, and although the others are sent to the outer court, it doesn't mean they burn forever, they weep and gnash their teeth because they didn't become immortals full of power, and it is showing the difference. If your worm doesn't die, it means that your seed of Sukkot will never die because it never received the rain, and when a seed receives the rain, IT DIES. But those who never receive the rain will not die and bear fruit. They could live a thousand years in blessing, but when you compare the two, the one who doesn't receive the rain is in torment of himself because he didn't try.
I have to ask. Can the believers in hell and eternal torment really not understand why others believe the version of God that you believe in to be less powerful and less loving than the version the UR folks believe in, where God ultimately succeeds in doing what he claims he wants to do and saves everyone, and is not limited in his love ?
The God of ET saves only a limited few, and allows those he cant save to suffer forever.
The God of UR fulfills his plan to save everyone, and has unconditional love for all of creation.
Well, nice dodge . Its never an encouraging sign when a poster avoids answering a simple question.
As to the truth, the much of the early church taught universalism . The Roman church was the fear mongering church. The churches that remained together after the Romans left continued the UR strain of Christianity for some time, until it was learned that using the fear of God was a powerful tool for the nobility to control the masses. Then the partnership of government and church began.
Who says your version is more valid than the one of the early church operating under the direct control and teachings of the original apostles, and free from being a tool of control for the nobility? Much of the reasoning and teaching of the early church was that an all loving and all powerful God could not fail to love and save everyone. The concept of God failing to save everyone and love unconditionally everyone was unthinkable to many early Christians. There is still a strain of thought within the descendant of the original church, the Eastern Orthodox, that God will save everyone, including the fallen angels and Satan himself. God is so powerful and loving that he will even win back Satan to his side.
I have to ask. Can the believers in hell and eternal torment really not understand why others believe the version of God that you believe in to be less powerful and less loving than the version the UR folks believe in, where God ultimately succeeds in doing what he claims he wants to do and saves everyone, and is not limited in his love ?
The God of ET saves only a limited few, and allows those he cant save to suffer forever.
The God of UR fulfills his plan to save everyone, and has unconditional love for all of creation.
Which is the more powerful and loving version?
The true God= Deuteronomy 30:19-- He set before all-LIFE or DEATH, both will be everlasting.
In the NT it was symbolism about eternal suffering for the value of what each lost who were thrown into the lake of fire=destruction.
The value= As each new day dawns in Gods kingdom, those destroyed will miss each new dawning day-eternally, it will never end. Eternally cut off from God.
Well, nice dodge . Its never an encouraging sign when a poster avoids answering a simple question.
As to the truth, the much of the early church taught universalism . The Roman church was the fear mongering church. The churches that remained together after the Romans left continued the UR strain of Christianity for some time, until it was learned that using the fear of God was a powerful tool for the nobility to control the masses. Then the partnership of government and church began.
Who says your version is more valid than the one of the early church operating under the direct control and teachings of the original apostles, and free from being a tool of control for the nobility? Much of the reasoning and teaching of the early church was that an all loving and all powerful God could not fail to love and save everyone. The concept of God failing to save everyone and love unconditionally everyone was unthinkable to many early Christians. There is still a strain of thought within the descendant of the original church, the Eastern Orthodox, that God will save everyone, including the fallen angels and Satan himself. God is so powerful and loving that he will even win back Satan to his side.
That's what a powerful view of God looks like.
I have argued this subject for years here. No dodge. However, you framed the question towards UR. You’re not searching for the truth-you’re just looking for an argument.
To find the truth about this subject, the whole of scripture must be read and studied.
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I have argued this subject for years here. No dodge. However, you framed the question towards UR. You’re not searching for the truth-you’re just looking for an argument. 
