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Old 04-09-2018, 03:59 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
11,709 posts, read 3,573,928 times
Reputation: 1093

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
That could possibly be true, but you are stating it as if it's absolute fact. It's not.

Hearing alone doesn't foster understanding. I grew up hearing it and couldn't understand it because the community from whence it came did not live it. There are others on this forum who had the same experience, although the details and their current outlook may differ from mine.

As a result of a recent thread about church as a social connection, I recently tried to think about what made me go back to a Christian church after getting away from it for so many years. I did initially go to my current church to try to make friends and find social connections. I knew the easiest place for me to go to be comfortable in a social setting was the pub about a mile from my house. I am comfortable in that setting. I am not an alcoholic but drinkers like me and I get along well with them because I know how to interact with them. I also know all too well how that ends up, so I looked at other possibilities.

I joined a writing group, but that only met twice a month and while it was a shared interest, it wasn't really something outside of which people socialized.

So, I thought I'd see if there was a church similar to the Episcopal parish I'd joined in my 30s when I had my daughter. I know how to function within a church crowd even better than I do bar patrons. I grew up in a home where church took precedence over everything else.

But looking back, there was something else. I am sure I could have found something other than a church. There's an Ashanti saying that I like: "se wo were fi na wosan kofa a yennki". Have no idea how to pronounce it, but it means, "There is nothing wrong with going back to fetch what one has forgotten."

Somewhere in the back of my head I think I needed to know what it was that attracted people to this Jesus guy that I had heard about and then read about and saw glowering at me every week from the stained-glass window and who sounded from the written words like he was mean and unpleasant and just waiting for me to mess up but was billed as being about love.

When I'd joined that first Episcopal Church, I pretty much worked around and ignored the whole Jesus part. Then I dumped the whole God part for a while, or tried to, anyway.

So this time out, I happened to find this place just when a newer priest had taken over, a former Catholic priest who'd quit in his 30s, married and had a corporate career, and then came to serve as an Episcopal priest after his retirement. He only had one sermon. No matter what Scriptures were that week, he took them and boiled them down to "Love God, and show that you love God by loving your neighbors." He showed us how that's the measure by which you determine what you will do. It's not easy, and every day we begin again and most days we fail. But THAT was the message. That's what this Jesus guy was saying. The motley group of people who are my church community were all there because they were drawn to that message, and they start it there by caring for one another, by forming a community of people who believe that this is what we are to do. Some have left in one way or another since I started there, and new people always walk in. They are all seeking this answer.

Simply reading the words doesn't do that. They are nothing BUT words unless someone lives them and shows their love and makes a mark on the hearts of others.
I believe the highlighted is the message.


i was brought up in an Assemblies of God church with the whole fire and brimstone eternal torment and it seemed at odds with the message I “heard” of love and forgiveness so at 15 I left the church, I retained a belief in God and about 10 years ago had an urge to seek what it all meant.
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Old 04-09-2018, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,187,653 times
Reputation: 2295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Do you die a physical death (possibly a very painful one), because you prefer that over life?

Truth is not a matter of choosing something based on personal preference. Truth just is. You can't change it by offering something which sounds better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Dying a painful death has absolutely nothing to do with your false beliefs about hell and eternal torment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I am sorry you did not understand the relevance of the question.
It's not difficult to see what is false.
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Old 04-09-2018, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,187,653 times
Reputation: 2295
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Nothing is more useful to understanding Christ than scripture or hearing from someone who’s read scripture.
Have you ever had a personal experience?
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Old 04-09-2018, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,389 posts, read 12,664,271 times
Reputation: 2476
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
That could possibly be true, but you are stating it as if it's absolute fact. It's not.

Hearing alone doesn't foster understanding. I grew up hearing it and couldn't understand it because the community from whence it came did not live it. There are others on this forum who had the same experience, although the details and their current outlook may differ from mine.

As a result of a recent thread about church as a social connection, I recently tried to think about what made me go back to a Christian church after getting away from it for so many years. I did initially go to my current church to try to make friends and find social connections. I knew the easiest place for me to go to be comfortable in a social setting was the pub about a mile from my house. I am comfortable in that setting. I am not an alcoholic but drinkers like me and I get along well with them because I know how to interact with them. I also know all too well how that ends up, so I looked at other possibilities.

I joined a writing group, but that only met twice a month and while it was a shared interest, it wasn't really something outside of which people socialized.

So, I thought I'd see if there was a church similar to the Episcopal parish I'd joined in my 30s when I had my daughter. I know how to function within a church crowd even better than I do bar patrons. I grew up in a home where church took precedence over everything else.

But looking back, there was something else. I am sure I could have found something other than a church. There's an Ashanti saying that I like: "se wo were fi na wosan kofa a yennki". Have no idea how to pronounce it, but it means, "There is nothing wrong with going back to fetch what one has forgotten."

Somewhere in the back of my head I think I needed to know what it was that attracted people to this Jesus guy that I had heard about and then read about and saw glowering at me every week from the stained-glass window and who sounded from the written words like he was mean and unpleasant and just waiting for me to mess up but was billed as being about love.

When I'd joined that first Episcopal Church, I pretty much worked around and ignored the whole Jesus part. Then I dumped the whole God part for a while, or tried to, anyway.

So this time out, I happened to find this place just when a newer priest had taken over, a former Catholic priest who'd quit in his 30s, married and had a corporate career, and then came to serve as an Episcopal priest after his retirement. He only had one sermon. No matter what Scriptures were that week, he took them and boiled them down to "Love God, and show that you love God by loving your neighbors." He showed us how that's the measure by which you determine what you will do. It's not easy, and every day we begin again and most days we fail. But THAT was the message. That's what this Jesus guy was saying. The motley group of people who are my church community were all there because they were drawn to that message, and they start it there by caring for one another, by forming a community of people who believe that this is what we are to do. Some have left in one way or another since I started there, and new people always walk in. They are all seeking this answer.

Simply reading the words doesn't do that. They are nothing BUT words unless someone lives them and shows their love and makes a mark on the hearts of others.
That’s a great story and I appreciate you sharing. However, people who “live” Christ found out about Him through reading scripture or hearing from someone who did.
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Old 04-09-2018, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,187,653 times
Reputation: 2295
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
How do people today find out about Christ? Through scripture or someone who has read it.
This is called hearsay evidence.
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Old 04-09-2018, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,389 posts, read 12,664,271 times
Reputation: 2476
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meerkat2 View Post
I believe the highlighted is the message.


i was brought up in an Assemblies of God church with the whole fire and brimstone eternal torment and it seemed at odds with the message I “heard” of love and forgiveness so at 15 I left the church, I retained a belief in God and about 10 years ago had an urge to seek what it all meant.
It seems to me you could have read the scriptures to see you were getting a lopsided message about Christ.
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Old 04-09-2018, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,389 posts, read 12,664,271 times
Reputation: 2476
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meerkat2 View Post
The Holy Spirit! When you read the scriptures literally you partake of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and it leads to death, the Holy Spirit leads you, teaches you about what is right and wrong. If you lean on the letter and the interpretation that has been tainted by man you will believe all sorts of fables, and partake of the delusion that has been sent.
Do you know of anyone who’s never read scripture (and never heard from someone who has), yet knows all about Jesus, His purpose, miracles and teachings?
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Old 04-09-2018, 04:33 PM
 
Location: New England
37,336 posts, read 28,081,105 times
Reputation: 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
But still, that comes from the source, the writers. How do people today find out about Christ? Through scripture or someone who has read it.
By your testimony..... Go tell your friends what great things God has done for you. Do your friends need to read the bible if you have a living testimony of the one the scriptures testify of?.
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Old 04-09-2018, 04:39 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
11,709 posts, read 3,573,928 times
Reputation: 1093
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
It seems to me you could have read the scriptures to see you were getting a lopsided message about Christ.
Lol.... indoctrination is a subtle thing, children believe what they are told and they tend to get conflicted when they believe a lie that is fed to them and “hear” another thing from the spirit.

What I read in the scripture was love your neighbour as yourself, be holy as your father in heaven is holy, do not repay evil for evil.

And this was in conflict with God created humans as humans and is going to torment them forever if they do not believe that a physical man existed 2000 years ago (who was actually God) just say I believe and I go to heaven. I could see that the humans in the church were not much different from those outside the church, and things were not making sense.
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Old 04-09-2018, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,187,653 times
Reputation: 2295
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Do you know of anyone who’s never read scripture (and never heard from someone who has), yet knows all about Jesus, His purpose, miracles and teachings?
What you have been listening to is Organized Religion and its indoctrination's.
His teachings (and miracles) were never about eternal torment or punishment.

Your view of a loving relationship is extremely skewed and distorted.
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