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Old 04-12-2018, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Panama City, FL
3,536 posts, read 1,709,120 times
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National Council of Churches: White Christians Must Repent for ‘America’s Original Sin’ of ‘White Racism’

I certainly do believe America needs to repent for its racism, and nationalism, as well among a treasure trove of other sins.
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Old 04-12-2018, 07:17 PM
 
Location: Panama City, FL
3,536 posts, read 1,709,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
Narrow is the gate and few are chosen...seems smaller is more biblical than LARGER?
You snatched the words right out of my mouth! How does LARGER square with the teaching about the great falling away before Jesus comes?
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Old 04-12-2018, 07:22 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,230 posts, read 26,440,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMusic View Post
National Council of Churches: White Christians Must Repent for ‘America’s Original Sin’ of ‘White Racism’

I certainly do believe America needs to repent for its racism, and nationalism, as well among a treasure trove of other sins.
Nationalism is not a sin and nothing to be repented of. Or ashamed of.

God bless America!!!


https://www.publicdomainpictures.net...=american+flag

Patriotic Mike
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Old 04-12-2018, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Panama City, FL
3,536 posts, read 1,709,120 times
Reputation: 1399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Nationalism is not a sin and nothing to be repented of. Or ashamed of.

God bless America!!!


https://www.publicdomainpictures.net...=american+flag

Patriotic Mike
I disagree with you, Mike. Here's why:

Nationalism is the sin of Babylon

When Babylon is first introduced into the narrative of the Bible, it's in Genesis 11:3-4:

They said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”

With this story as our starting point, we begin to see Babylon taking shape as the image of a large group of people taking pride in their collective power ("make a name for ourselves") to the extent that they make themselves equal to or above even God ("build a tower to the heavens"), deciding for themselves what is right and wrong.

In the next book of the Bible, we see Egypt realizing this template in the form of Pharaoh, who sees it as in his nation's best interest to start drowning babies. We see here in a visceral illustration the evil of Babylon, and indeed, these two nations together are referred to over and over again by the prophets as a shorthand for violent, prideful nations. When we see Solomon begin his fall from grace, it is in the form of marrying an Egyptian woman, taking Egyptian warhorses, and accepting a gift from Egypt that came from the wholesale slaughter of a city. When in rebellion against God, thinking themselves superior to the other nations for who they were and who their fathers were, Israel is called a sister to Egypt and Babylon. Judgement comes upon Jerusalem for the very crime of Babylon; they think to make a name for themselves instead of doing what God has commanded.

Do not be linked to Babylon. Babylon is not your friend. Any group willing to slaughter children and innocent bystanders in the name of "safety" is not your friend. You may find yourself in Babylon, but do not link yourself to it by pride for it or excuse of its atrocities.


Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianit...in_of_babylon/
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Old 04-12-2018, 07:50 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,357,412 times
Reputation: 2296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Nationalism is not a sin and nothing to be repented of. Or ashamed of.

God bless America!!!


https://www.publicdomainpictures.net...=american+flag

Patriotic Mike
Are you a veteran of foreign wars?
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Old 04-12-2018, 08:21 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,230 posts, read 26,440,532 times
Reputation: 16370
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMusic View Post
I disagree with you, Mike. Here's why:

Nationalism is the sin of Babylon

When Babylon is first introduced into the narrative of the Bible, it's in Genesis 11:3-4:

They said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”

With this story as our starting point, we begin to see Babylon taking shape as the image of a large group of people taking pride in their collective power ("make a name for ourselves") to the extent that they make themselves equal to or above even God ("build a tower to the heavens"), deciding for themselves what is right and wrong.

In the next book of the Bible, we see Egypt realizing this template in the form of Pharaoh, who sees it as in his nation's best interest to start drowning babies. We see here in a visceral illustration the evil of Babylon, and indeed, these two nations together are referred to over and over again by the prophets as a shorthand for violent, prideful nations. When we see Solomon begin his fall from grace, it is in the form of marrying an Egyptian woman, taking Egyptian warhorses, and accepting a gift from Egypt that came from the wholesale slaughter of a city. When in rebellion against God, thinking themselves superior to the other nations for who they were and who their fathers were, Israel is called a sister to Egypt and Babylon. Judgement comes upon Jerusalem for the very crime of Babylon; they think to make a name for themselves instead of doing what God has commanded.

Do not be linked to Babylon. Babylon is not your friend. Any group willing to slaughter children and innocent bystanders in the name of "safety" is not your friend. You may find yourself in Babylon, but do not link yourself to it by pride for it or excuse of its atrocities.


Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianit...in_of_babylon/
If you're going to bring the Bible into it, then according to the Bible God ordained nationalism. God established the nations. Genesis chapters 9 and 10 address the founding of human government. And God established Israel as a nation to Himself.

The existence of individual nations makes it harder for Satan to gain too much control over the world. It is not nationalism that is evil, but internationalism which is sponsored by Satan. Regardless of the problems within a given nation, the principle remains that in human history, including in the Millennium when Jesus will be ruling on the earth, and even in the new heaven and earth, God's plan calls for nations. In Zechariah 14 nations exist in the Millennial kingdom. In Revelation 22 nations exist in the eternal state.

Though not the authentic version of Stephen Decatur's quote, I agree with the commonly quoted version.
Our country, may she always be in the right!
But right or wrong, our country!
==The toast of Stephen Decatur (commonly quoted version)

https://philebersole.wordpress.com/t...an-patriotism/

I am strongly patriotic.
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Old 04-12-2018, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
10,688 posts, read 7,712,852 times
Reputation: 4674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meester-Chung View Post
black not trusting white evangelicals has nothing to do with the fact that liberal churches are dying and losing members and conservative churches are growing and more racially diverse that liberal churches who are predominantly white.
Well doesn't your bible read that near the end, the love of many will wax cold?
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Old 04-12-2018, 09:28 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
10,688 posts, read 7,712,852 times
Reputation: 4674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
If you're going to bring the Bible into it, then according to the Bible God ordained nationalism. God established the nations. Genesis chapters 9 and 10 address the founding of human government. And God established Israel as a nation to Himself.

The existence of individual nations makes it harder for Satan to gain too much control over the world. It is not nationalism that is evil, but internationalism which is sponsored by Satan. Regardless of the problems within a given nation, the principle remains that in human history, including in the Millennium when Jesus will be ruling on the earth, and even in the new heaven and earth, God's plan calls for nations. In Zechariah 14 nations exist in the Millennial kingdom. In Revelation 22 nations exist in the eternal state.

Though not the authentic version of Stephen Decatur's quote, I agree with the commonly quoted version.
Our country, may she always be in the right!
But right or wrong, our country!
==The toast of Stephen Decatur (commonly quoted version)

https://philebersole.wordpress.com/t...an-patriotism/

I am strongly patriotic.
Jesus said "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." Making it clear that Caesar and God are in two very different realms.

Quote:
With one straightforward counter-question, Jesus skillfully points out that the claims of God and Caesar are mutually exclusive. If one's faith is in God, then God is owed everything; Caesar's claims are necessarily illegitimate, and he is therefore owed nothing. If, on the other hand, one's faith is in Caesar, God's claims are illegitimate, and Caesar is owed, at the very least, the coin which bears his image.

Jesus' counter-question simply invites His listeners to choose allegiances. Remarkably, He has escaped the trap through a clever rhetorical gambit; He has authoritatively refuted His opponents' hostile question by basing His answer in scripture, and yet, He never overtly answers the question originally posed to Him. No wonder that St. Matthew ends the Tribute Episode this way: "When they heard this they were amazed, and leaving him they went away."

IV. THE CONTEXT IN THE GOSPELS: A TRADITION OF SUBTLE SEDITION
Subtle sedition refers to scenes throughout the Gospels which were not overtly treasonous and would not have directly threatened Roman authorities, but which delivered political messages that first century Jewish audiences would have immediately recognized. The Gospels are replete with instances of subtle sedition. Pointing these out is not to argue that Jesus saw Himself as a political king. Jesus makes it explicit in John 18:36 that He is not a political Messiah. Rather, in the context of subtle sedition, no one can interpret the Tribute Episode as Jesus' support of taxation. To the contrary, one can only understand the Tribute Episode as Jesus' opposition to the illicit Roman taxes.
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2010/03/...tamentpassage/

‘We must obey God rather than any human authority’ (Acts 5:29).

Choose you this day whom you will serve.

Last edited by Wardendresden; 04-12-2018 at 09:36 PM..
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Old 04-12-2018, 10:09 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,230 posts, read 26,440,532 times
Reputation: 16370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
Jesus said "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." Making it clear that Caesar and God are in two very different realms.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2010/03/...tamentpassage/

‘We must obey God rather than any human authority’ (Acts 5:29).

Choose you this day whom you will serve.
While spiritually the believer is a citizen of heaven, physically he is a citizen of whatever country he lives in and has certain duties to that country. If there is a conflict between obeying God and obeying the laws of a person's country then the believer must choose between God and country. Otherwise the believer is to obey the authorities.
Romans 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2] Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3] For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4] or he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer. 5] Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God’s wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6] For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7] Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.
The believer has a duty to God and to his country. And except where there is a conflict the believer need not choose between them.
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Old 04-12-2018, 10:13 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,357,412 times
Reputation: 2296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
If you're going to bring the Bible into it, then according to the Bible God ordained nationalism. God established the nations. Genesis chapters 9 and 10 address the founding of human government. And God established Israel as a nation to Himself.

The existence of individual nations makes it harder for Satan to gain too much control over the world. It is not nationalism that is evil, but internationalism which is sponsored by Satan. Regardless of the problems within a given nation, the principle remains that in human history, including in the Millennium when Jesus will be ruling on the earth, and even in the new heaven and earth, God's plan calls for nations. In Zechariah 14 nations exist in the Millennial kingdom. In Revelation 22 nations exist in the eternal state.

Though not the authentic version of Stephen Decatur's quote, I agree with the commonly quoted version.
Our country, may she always be in the right!
But right or wrong, our country!
==The toast of Stephen Decatur (commonly quoted version)

https://philebersole.wordpress.com/t...an-patriotism/
I am strongly patriotic.
A true patriot is someone who is willing to show love towards all people, even at times when nobody is watching. And it doesn’t matter which country you profess to love more than any other, as love has no boundaries.
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