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Old 04-24-2018, 01:12 PM
 
Location: the Kingdom of His dear Son
7,530 posts, read 3,023,097 times
Reputation: 275

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Jesus is the savior of all men, but faith is required to access it.
BREAKING GOOD NEWS

Apostle Paul reports that the impact of death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord, Jesus Christ, 2,000 years ago shown to be more, not less, powerful than the disobedience of man He created 4,000 years prior (Romans 5:19)! Christians "horrified" and "offended" by this "heresy!" Furiously argue redemption of all mankind is an "insult to the cross of Christ"...

-John Moneypenny-

Last edited by Rose2Luv; 04-24-2018 at 01:23 PM..

 
Old 04-24-2018, 01:18 PM
 
Location: the Kingdom of His dear Son
7,530 posts, read 3,023,097 times
Reputation: 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose2Luv View Post
BREAKING GOOD NEWS

Apostle Paul reports that the impact of death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord, Jesus Christ, 2,000 years ago shown to be more, not less, powerful than the disobedience of man He created 4,000 years prior (Romans 5:19)! Christians "horrified" and "offended" by this "heresy!" Furiously argue redemption of all mankind is an "insult to the cross of Christ"...

-John Moneypenny-
The closing verses of Romans 5 have been the standing perplexity of theologians.

Yet nowhere has the Holy Spirit written for our learning plainer conclusions, and never has tradition been blinder than in the treatment of this magnificent passage. Believe the passage as it stands, and the divine logic is irresistible.

It contains a comparison between the first and the last Adam. What the first Adam was, and is, to the whole human race, the last Adam is, and will be also, to the whole human race.

This is the simple and grand logic of verses 18 and 19. "Therefore as by the offence of one, judgment came upon all men to condemnation, EVEN SO by the righteousness of One, the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." Then there follows a reiteration of the comparison with its Divine logic, so that the fact might be stated again, not only as a climax in the purpose of redemption, but as a future goal in the history of the working out of the redemption of all men. "For as by one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall the many be made righteous." The insertion of the definite article, which the Authorized Version unwarrantably leaves out before the word "many" in each case, emphasizes the fact for which it was originally placed there, viz.-- that the company of the righteous is identical in person and number with the company of the sinners to which the passage refers.

So that we have two phrases in these two verses, by which we can establish beyond question the identity of those under discussion. These two phrases are "ALL MEN," and "THE MANY." Of this company it is declared in the first place, that "all men" and "the many" were made sinners and come into condemnation; and in the second place, that "all men" and "the many" will be made righteous, not simply saved but made righteous. If this plain simple language-- and God could not have made it plainer-- does not mean what it says, but infers something quite the opposite, so that the comparison used is not a true one, then we may well pause to ask how ever it came about that on such a subject, and at such a climax in his argument, Paul did not tell us exactly what he meant. -A.E. Saxby-
 
Old 04-24-2018, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,439 posts, read 12,781,890 times
Reputation: 2497
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose2Luv View Post
BREAKING GOOD NEWS

Apostle Paul reports that the impact of death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord, Jesus Christ, 2,000 years ago shown to be more, not less, powerful than the disobedience of man He created 4,000 years prior (Romans 5:19)! Christians "horrified" and "offended" by this "heresy!" Furiously argue redemption of all mankind is an "insult to the cross of Christ"...

-John Moneypenny-
I am not offended by someone coming to Christ. Just the opposite. To insinuate such is insulting.
 
Old 04-24-2018, 04:08 PM
 
63,795 posts, read 40,063,093 times
Reputation: 7870
Quote:
Originally Posted by SumTingy View Post
You are projecting and accusing when I did not say that. Do you know putting your faith in Jesus even means?
Yes, it means believing that He did what He said He did and reconciled us to God so God is NOT counting our sins against us. Strange that you not only continue to worry about God counting our sins against us, but also condemn others for their sin acting as God to judge them.

Last edited by MysticPhD; 04-24-2018 at 04:39 PM..
 
Old 04-24-2018, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,352,130 times
Reputation: 2296
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
Salvation is not a one shot deal as in the sinners prayer. Salvation is actually a way of life that starts with being reconciled in Christ and is suppose to be our daily walk in Christ throughout this life.
... and the life to come.
 
Old 04-24-2018, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,439 posts, read 12,781,890 times
Reputation: 2497
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
Salvation is not a one shot deal as in the sinners prayer. Salvation is actually a way of life that starts with being reconciled in Christ and is suppose to be our daily walk in Christ throughout this life.
Being reconciled to God is the same as the sinner’s prayer. It was for me, anyway.
 
Old 04-24-2018, 07:47 PM
 
Location: the Kingdom of His dear Son
7,530 posts, read 3,023,097 times
Reputation: 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
I am not offended by someone coming to Christ. Just the opposite. To insinuate such is insulting.
My friend, rest assured there was/is no purpose in insulting you, or for that matter anyone on these boards! In keeping with the theme of this link regarding the restitution of all things as spoken by the prophets from earliest ages, coming into Christ Jesus is an awesome experience. Our God is the Saviour of all mankind, not a potential Saviour, Jesus Christ is the Saviour of all mankind. But wait, He is the Saviour especially of those who trust in Him (who believe.) He is not the Saviour of ONLY those who believe!

"I will draw all mankind unto Myself"

Draw=

The primary definition of the word 'draw' in Greek "helkuo" is to literally to draw, drag off forcefully, impel, pull with power.
 
Old 04-24-2018, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,439 posts, read 12,781,890 times
Reputation: 2497
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose2Luv View Post
My friend, rest assured there was/is no purpose in insulting you, or for that matter anyone on these boards! In keeping with the theme of this link regarding the restitution of all things as spoken by the prophets from earliest ages, coming into Christ Jesus is an awesome experience. Our God is the Saviour of all mankind, not a potential Saviour, Jesus Christ is the Saviour of all mankind. But wait, He is the Saviour especially of those who trust in Him (who believe.) He is not the Saviour of ONLY those who believe!

"I will draw all mankind unto Myself"

Draw=

The primary definition of the word 'draw' in Greek "helkuo" is to literally to draw, drag off forcefully, impel, pull with power.
What does especially mean in that passage?
 
Old 04-24-2018, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Canada
11,123 posts, read 6,384,908 times
Reputation: 602
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Jesus is the savior of all men, but faith is required to access it.

.
For me the reason Jesus was sent and the reason Jesus sends us is to free people through Him from sin and death. Salvation is not complete just because one believes Jesus died for them. Believing is only the starting point on our journey toward full salvation, for we are reconciled by His death, but saved by His life.

All men everywhere are already reconciled by His death, this is a done deal because He died 2000 years ago for all men's reconciliation and mans belief or unbelief CANNOT change this fact. If someone does not believe Jesus died for them simply does not change the fact that He did.

So then all men everywhere have already been reconciled, but not all men are yet saved from sin and death.
Therefore Jesus sends us out in order to proclaim His salvation by His LIFE.
His death reconciled all men, but His LIFE is what saves all men, this salvation is not a one time deal as such, but is a long process of walking in His LIFE and forsaking our own. Taking up the cross and following Him and enduring unto the end that we might be saved.


Thus we are told to proclaim His death and therefore His reconciliation for all men as a FACT that cannot be disputed , and we are to do this so that the entire world can have the same hope in His LIFE that we to have. Thus it is not by His death that sin and death are defeated but by His LIFE.

When we witness about that which Jesus has done, we are first to tell all men that they have been reconciled because of His death, this fact breathes hope into the world that God does indeed love them. Then after people become aware of the fact of this reconciliation by His death we are to proclaim His resurrection. And it is because of the fact that He was resurrected OUT OF DEATH that the world is given hope of the same resurrection OUT OF DEATH. We are NOT saved from death, we are saved OUT OF DEATH, for it was while we were DEAD in sin that He died and was raised to life again for us.

So the resurrection is a moving from DEATH to LIFE, so as He died for all men, so to did He rise for all men, and this is the gospel of the good new toward ALL MEN EVERYWHERE.

If one believes Jesus died for all men, should it not go without saying that when He rose again that it was for all men also? Can we really separate His death from His resurrection? If so, how then can DEATH be swallowed up of LIFE?




Quote:
Can you provide a scriptural reference for the chasm being bridged?
Jimmie the chasm scripture is a parable it is not to be taken literally. Abrahams bosom is not heaven and hades is not Gehenna. It is a parable about the gentile and the Jew and how there is a wall of partition that was between them, which wall was broken down in Christ. Paul breaks it down this way.

*Eph.2:11-18
wherefore remember, that ye*being*in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition*between us;
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity,*even*the law of commandments*contained*in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man,*so*making peace;
And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.


Quote:
How about people being saved after death?
1 Pet.3:18-20
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1 Pet.4:6
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Eph.4:8-10
Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)


Rev.22:14-17
Blessed*are*they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
For without*are*dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David,*and*the bright and morning star.
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Take note that these scriptures are talking about AFTER the New Jerusalem has been established and the great white throne judgment has already passed and the dogs, sorcerers, murderers are without the gate.

Also notice what it says about those same dogs, sorcerers, murderers who are without the gate. Once these dogs, sorcerers, murderers who are without the gate learn to do His commandments they have the right to the tree of life and can enter into through the gates into the city.

And the reason why they are able to do this is because the spirit and the bride are still saying come and all that are thirsty may take of the water of life freely.








Quote:
*My name is Jimmie or jimmiej, not Jim.
Sorry Jimmie no offence was meant by calling you Jim, but will endeavour to remember to call you Jimmie as you prefer.
 
Old 04-24-2018, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Canada
11,123 posts, read 6,384,908 times
Reputation: 602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
... and the life to come.
I thought that went without saying, but glad you said it anyway
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