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No, it doesn't but apparently that's all you want to believe.
Unless you can actually offer something of substance to back up your asertions, don't waste my time. These completely unsupported 'Uh uh's' of yours are immature and do nothing but take up space.
No, it doesn't but apparently that's all you want to believe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
Unless you can actually offer something of substance to back up your asertions, don't waste my time. These completely unsupported 'Uh uh's' of yours are immature and do nothing but take up space.
So, you believe the book of Job confirms or validates your beliefs that it can only mean angels?
So, you believe the book of Job confirms or validates your beliefs that it can only mean angels?
In all three instances in Job where the term bə·nê hā·’ĕ·lō·hîm - 'sons of God' is used in the Hebrew Scriptures, Job 1:6, 2:1, and 38:7, the Septuagint translates it as οἱ ἄγγελοι τοῦ Θεοῦ - 'the angels of God' in Job 1:6 and 2:1, and as πάντες ἄγγελοί μου - 'all my angels' in Job 38:7.
In Job 1:6 and 2:1 the sons of God (the angels of God) are presenting themselves, along with ὁ διάβολος - 'the devil', who when asked by God, ''From where do you come?'' replies, ''From roaming about on the earth and walking about on it.'' which implies that he is at that moment not on the earth. And neither are the angels of God.
In Job 38:7 the sons of God, - 'all my angels' in the Septuagint are shouting for joy as God is laying the foundation of the earth. Or as it is rendered in the Septuagint, Job 38:7 When the stars were made, all my angels praised me with a loud voice. https://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/gree...ook=25&page=38
And so, yes. The exact phrase, bə·nê hā·’ĕ·lō·hîm - sons of God refers to angels in Job. And the only other two times that exact phrase, bə·nê hā·’ĕ·lō·hîm - 'sons of God' is used in the Hebrew Bible is in Genesis 6:2,4. And both Peter and Jude referred to Genesis 6:4 when in 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 1:6 they stated that the angels which were involved are imprisoned and awaiting the day of judgment.
Last edited by Michael Way; 05-27-2018 at 01:32 PM..
05-27-2018, 01:37 PM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
In all three instances in Job where the term bə·nê hā·’ĕ·lō·hîm - 'sons of God' is used in the Hebrew Scriptures, Job 1:6, 2:1, and 38:7, the Septuagint translates it as οἱ ἄγγελοι τοῦ Θεοῦ - 'the angels of God' in Job 1:6 and 2:1, and as πάντες ἄγγελοί μου - 'all my angels' in Job 38:7.
In Job 1:6 and 2:1 the sons of God (the angels of God) are presenting themselves, along with ὁ διάβολος - 'the devil', who when asked by God, ''From where do you come?'' replies, ''From roaming about on the earth and walking about on it.'' which implies that he is at that moment not on the earth. And neither are the angels of God.
In Job 38:7 the sons of God, - 'all my angels' in the Septuagint are shouting for joy as God is laying the foundation of the earth. Or as it is rendered in the Septuagint, Job 38:7 When the stars were made, all my angels praised me with a loud voice. https://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/gree...ook=25&page=38
And so, yes. The exact phrase, bə·nê hā·’ĕ·lō·hîm - sons of God refers to angels in Job. And the only other two times that exact phrase, bə·nê hā·’ĕ·lō·hîm - 'sons of God' is used in the Hebrew Bible is in Genesis 6:2,4. And both Peter and Jude referred to Genesis 6:4 when in 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 1:6 they stated that the angels which were involved are imprisoned and awaiting the day of judgment.
Yep, but there is one other place where the phrase 'sons of God' is used in Hebrew and we know it is the original - DSS Deut.32:8.
Yep, but there is one other place where the phrase 'sons of God' is used in Hebrew and we know it is the original - DSS Deut.32:8.
That's true. Unfortunately, when the Masoretes produced the Masoretic Text they edited Deuteronomy 32:8 (or perhaps they used a Hebrew text which is no longer extant) so that in the Masoretic Text (Tanakh) it says 'sons of Israel', whereas in both the DDS and the Septuagaint, Deuteronomy 32:8 reads as ἀγγέλων Θεοῦ - 'angels of God' (Septuagint) and 'children of God (DSS).
In all three instances in Job where the term bə·nê hā·’ĕ·lō·hîm - 'sons of God' is used in the Hebrew Scriptures, Job 1:6, 2:1, and 38:7, the Septuagint translates it as οἱ ἄγγελοι τοῦ Θεοῦ - 'the angels of God' in Job 1:6 and 2:1, and as πάντες ἄγγελοί μου - 'all my angels' in Job 38:7.
In Job 1:6 and 2:1 the sons of God (the angels of God) are presenting themselves, along with ὁ διάβολος - 'the devil', who when asked by God, ''From where do you come?'' replies, ''From roaming about on the earth and walking about on it.'' which implies that he is at that moment not on the earth. And neither are the angels of God.
In Job 38:7 the sons of God, - 'all my angels' in the Septuagint are shouting for joy as God is laying the foundation of the earth. Or as it is rendered in the Septuagint, Job 38:7 When the stars were made, all my angels praised me with a loud voice. https://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/gree...ook=25&page=38
And so, yes. The exact phrase, bə·nê hā·’ĕ·lō·hîm - sons of God refers to angels in Job. And the only other two times that exact phrase, bə·nê hā·’ĕ·lō·hîm - 'sons of God' is used in the Hebrew Bible is in Genesis 6:2,4. And both Peter and Jude referred to Genesis 6:4 when in 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 1:6 they stated that the angels which were involved are imprisoned and awaiting the day of judgment.
Job 1:6-7
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and the adversary came also among them. And the Lord said unto the adversary, Where do you come from? And the adversary answered him and said, "from going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."
So, you understand the term "before the Lord" as being literally in the heavens, instead of before those who represent him here on this earth as in a temple or place of authority. Alright, if that’s what you believe, but aren’t you the one who says that Satan was ejected from Heaven because of his iniquities; and that God turned his back on his Son because he cannot look upon, or be in the presence of sin?
Personally, I see this story as a form of Wisdom Writing or literature also called Aggadah in Hebrew, which is to teach us that good and bad can happen to every human being on the planet regardless of how "perfect" they might be. But I suppose without the concept of Satan and the resurrection as you see them. We would have to take full responsibility for our own thoughts; deeds and actions, which can be a fearful thing for someone who has been indoctrinated to pass-the-buck.
Job 1:6-7
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and the adversary came also among them. And the Lord said unto the adversary, Where do you come from? And the adversary answered him and said, "from going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."
So, you understand the term "before the Lord" as being literally in the heavens, instead of before those who represent him here on this earth as in a temple or place of authority. Alright, if that’s what you believe, but aren’t you the one who says that Satan was ejected from Heaven because of his iniquities; and that God turned his back on his Son because he cannot look upon, or be in the presence of sin?
Personally, I see this story as a form of Wisdom Writing or literature also called Aggadah in Hebrew, which is to teach us that good and bad can happen to every human being on the planet regardless of how "perfect" they might be. But I suppose without the concept of Satan and the resurrection as you see them. We would have to take full responsibility for our own thoughts; deeds and actions, which can be a fearful thing for someone who has been indoctrinated to pass-the-buck.
Satan, the devil, still has access to heaven and won't be permanently barred from heaven until the middle of the Tribulation.
And your insinuations that belief in the devil stems from not wanting to be responsible for our own actions is completely ignores the fact that the Biblical writers, and Jesus, referred to Satan as an actual individual. And the same goes for demons.
In all three instances in Job where the term bə·nê hā·’ĕ·lō·hîm - 'sons of God' is used in the Hebrew Scriptures, Job 1:6, 2:1, and 38:7, the Septuagint translates it as οἱ ἄγγελοι τοῦ Θεοῦ - 'the angels of God' in Job 1:6 and 2:1, and as πάντες ἄγγελοί μου - 'all my angels' in Job 38:7.
In Job 1:6 and 2:1 the sons of God (the angels of God) are presenting themselves, along with ὁ διάβολος - 'the devil', who when asked by God, ''From where do you come?'' replies, ''From roaming about on the earth and walking about on it.'' which implies that he is at that moment not on the earth. And neither are the angels of God.
In Job 38:7 the sons of God, - 'all my angels' in the Septuagint are shouting for joy as God is laying the foundation of the earth. Or as it is rendered in the Septuagint, Job 38:7 When the stars were made, all my angels praised me with a loud voice. https://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/gree...ook=25&page=38
And so, yes. The exact phrase, bə·nê hā·’ĕ·lō·hîm - sons of God refers to angels in Job. And the only other two times that exact phrase, bə·nê hā·’ĕ·lō·hîm - 'sons of God' is used in the Hebrew Bible is in Genesis 6:2,4. And both Peter and Jude referred to Genesis 6:4 when in 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 1:6 they stated that the angels which were involved are imprisoned and awaiting the day of judgment.
The stories in the Old Testament are not literally true, just like the creation account they are instructional for “Israel”
“Israel” is being created, which is Gods firstborn “son” through the messiah, a reborn nation both the Jew and gentile, a new “man” one in “Christ”
The man Jesus came to fulfill the prophetic things written in the scriptures that relate to national things. He had 12 “disciples” which relate to the 12 “tribes” they take over the 7 nations in “Canaan” which relate to the 7 “churches”
The creation of the new heaven and earth, the New Jerusalem, the nations, the beast, the false prophet, Babylon, all being judged are all earthly things which have been spiritualised into a god/man, angels, demons, Christians going to heaven, non-Christians being eternally tormented.
The stories in the Old Testament are not literally true, just like the creation account they are instructional for “Israel”
“Israel” is being created, which is Gods firstborn “son” through the messiah, a reborn nation both the Jew and gentile, a new “man” one in “Christ”
The man Jesus came to fulfill the prophetic things written in the scriptures that relate to national things. He had 12 “disciples” which relate to the 12 “tribes” they take over the 7 nations in “Canaan” which relate to the 7 “churches”
The creation of the new heaven and earth, the New Jerusalem, the nations being judged, Babylon are all earthly things which have been spiritualised into a god/man, angels, demons, Christians going to heaven, non-Christians being eternally tormented.
Just because the creation and flood stories are non-literal doesn't mean that everything in the Old Testament is non-literal. And the text presents the sons of God as being angelic beings. Not humans.
And I do not at all agree with your beliefs that Jesus is not literally the God-man, and that angels and demons aren't real, or that believers in Christ don't go to heaven. And I don't agree with the doctrine of Universalism.
Last edited by Michael Way; 05-27-2018 at 04:22 PM..
So, you believe the book of Job confirms or validates your beliefs that it can only mean angels?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
In all three instances in Job where the term bə·nê hā·’ĕ·lō·hîm - 'sons of God' is used in the Hebrew Scriptures, Job 1:6, 2:1, and 38:7, the Septuagint translates it as οἱ ἄγγελοι τοῦ Θεοῦ - 'the angels of God' in Job 1:6 and 2:1, and as πάντες ἄγγελοί μου - 'all my angels' in Job 38:7.
In Job 1:6 and 2:1 the sons of God (the angels of God) are presenting themselves, along with ὁ διάβολος - 'the devil', who when asked by God, ''From where do you come?'' replies, ''From roaming about on the earth and walking about on it.'' which implies that he is at that moment not on the earth. And neither are the angels of God.
In Job 38:7 the sons of God, - 'all my angels' in the Septuagint are shouting for joy as God is laying the foundation of the earth. Or as it is rendered in the Septuagint, Job 38:7 When the stars were made, all my angels praised me with a loud voice. https://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/gree...ook=25&page=38
And so, yes. The exact phrase, bə·nê hā·’ĕ·lō·hîm - sons of God refers to angels in Job. And the only other two times that exact phrase, bə·nê hā·’ĕ·lō·hîm - 'sons of God' is used in the Hebrew Bible is in Genesis 6:2,4. And both Peter and Jude referred to Genesis 6:4 when in 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 1:6 they stated that the angels which were involved are imprisoned and awaiting the day of judgment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade
Job 1:6-7
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and the adversary came also among them. And the Lord said unto the adversary, Where do you come from? And the adversary answered him and said, "from going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."
So, you understand the term "before the Lord" as being literally in the heavens, instead of before those who represent him here on this earth as in a temple or place of authority. Alright, if that’s what you believe, but aren’t you the one who says that Satan was ejected from Heaven because of his iniquities; and that God turned his back on his Son because he cannot look upon, or be in the presence of sin?
Personally, I see this story as a form of Wisdom Writing or literature also called Aggadah in Hebrew, which is to teach us that good and bad can happen to every human being on the planet regardless of how "perfect" they might be. But I suppose without the concept of Satan and the resurrection as you see them. We would have to take full responsibility for our own thoughts; deeds and actions, which can be a fearful thing for someone who has been indoctrinated to pass-the-buck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
Satan, the devil, still has access to heaven and won't be permanently barred from heaven until the middle of the Tribulation.
And your insinuations that belief in the devil stems from not wanting to be responsible for our own actions is completely ignores the fact that the Biblical writers, and Jesus, referred to Satan as an actual individual. And the same goes for demons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meerkat2
The stories in the Old Testament are not literally true, just like the creation account they are instructional for “Israel”
“Israel” is being created, which is Gods firstborn “son” through the messiah, a reborn nation both the Jew and gentile, a new “man” one in “Christ”
The man Jesus came to fulfill the prophetic things written in the scriptures that relate to national things. He had 12 “disciples” which relate to the 12 “tribes” they take over the 7 nations in “Canaan” which relate to the 7 “churches”
The creation of the new heaven and earth, the New Jerusalem, the nations, the beast, the false prophet, Babylon, all being judged are all earthly things which have been spiritualised into a god/man, angels, demons, Christians going to heaven, non-Christians being eternally tormented.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
Just because the creation and flood stories are non-literal doesn't mean that everything in the Old Testament is non-literal. And the text presents the sons of God as being angelic beings. Not humans.
And I do not at all agree with your beliefs that Jesus is not literally the God-man, and that angels and demons aren't real, or that believers in Christ don't go to heaven. And I don't agree with the doctrine of Universalism.
I suppose you can pick and choose between those things that are actually real and those that are fanciful, when you have an over active imagination; and an unrealistic perception. So, let me just suggest that what we are shown in the writing's of Job is a picture of "human" people gathering before the Lord at the Temple or elsewhere. And one of them was an adversary, as the story took place in the here, and now - not someplace out yonder!
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