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Anyone who thinks the sons of God are men is fooling themselves.
It's clear that the writer of Genesis 6 expects his readers to understand the backdrop of this event. This is clear in the surrounding literature and cultural understanding of the times. Enoch is part of that.
Whatever nephilim means, since it is debated, it is clear what they are - they are the offspring of the union between the bene ha elohim (sons of god) and the benowt ha adam (daughters of men). Notice the contrast between categories - male god and female human.
These offspring were the giants (haggibborim) according to Enoch - mighty warriors and heroes of old that were very large.
This understanding is why the Greek version translates it as giants. The two become conflated but that is not what nephilim means. It most likely has to do with fallen - in relation to the giants not the sons of God - in other words the nephilim are the fallen giant heroes of old. Thus probably - fallen ones!
You can see a similar vein of thought even in Ezek. 32:27
It is talking about how the uncircumcised have fallen - killed by the sword and brought down to the pit/grave.
All of them are uncircumcised, killed by the sword, for their terror had spread in the land of the living. They bear their shame along with those who descend to the pit; they are placed among the dead. 32:26 “Meshech-Tubal is there, along with all her hordes around her grave. All of them are uncircumcised, killed by the sword, for they spread their terror in the land of the living. 32:27 They do not lie with the fallen warriors of ancient times, who went down to Sheol with their weapons of war, having their swords placed under their heads and their shields on their bones, when the terror of these warriors was in the land of the living.
Fallen warriors in the above text is - nophilm gibborim. Ezekiel notes that these are the mighty warriors of old. The pointing on the word fallen is from the medieval period. Otherwise it would be 'nephilim warriors' or 'warriors, the nephilim.'
When the writer of Genesis mentions his story he refers back to the nephilim as well - the ones whom YHWH killed with the flood - they are the fallen (killed) heroes of old, the giants.
Later on in Numbers 13:33 the spies, who have this background tradition, associate the Anakim with the nephilim because of their stature being very large.
As a side note Goliath was from Anak. After Joshua killed all but a few of the giants the ones that remained took refuge in Philistine country where David later dealt with them. Josh.11:21-22.
11:21 At that time Joshua attacked and eliminated the Anakites from the hill country – from Hebron, Debir, Anab, and all the hill country of Judah and Israel. Joshua annihilated them and their cities. 11:22 No Anakites were left in Israelite territory, though some remained in Gaza, Gath, and Ashdod.
It is possible that the Nephilim story in the Bible came from Sumerian mythology.
Read closely,
The nephillim seemed to be distict in of themselves and separate from the narative of the so called giants"
4The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward,
when the sons of the nobles would come to the daughters of man, and they would bear for them; they are the mighty men, who were of old, the men of renown.
12And God saw the earth, and behold it had become corrupted, for all flesh had corrupted its way on the earth.
Revelation.
16 I heard a loud voice from the sanctuary say to the seven angels, “Go, and pour out on the earth the seven bowls of God’s fury!”
2 So the first one went and poured his bowl onto the earth, and disgusting and painful sores appeared on all the people who had the mark of the beast and worshipped its image.
3 The second one poured out his bowl into the sea, and it became like the blood of a dead person, and every living thing in the sea died.
4 The third one poured out his bowl into the rivers and springs of water, and they turned to blood. 5 Then I heard the angel of the waters say,
“O HaKadosh, the One who is and was,
you are just in these judgments of yours.
6 They poured out the blood of your people and your prophets,
so you have made them drink blood. They deserve it!”
7 Then I heard the altar say,
“Yes, Adonai, God of heaven’s armies,[a]
your judgments are true and just!”
8 The fourth one poured out his bowl on the sun, and it was permitted to burn people with fire. 9 People were burned by the intense heat; yet they cursed the name of God, who had the authority over these plagues, instead of turning from their sins to give him glory.
10 The fifth one poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom grew dark. People gnawed on their tongues from the pain, 11 yet they cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and sores, and did not turn from their sinful deeds.
12 The sixth one poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water dried up, in order to prepare the way for the kings from the east. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits that looked like frogs; they came from the mouth of the dragon, from the mouth of the beast and from the mouth of the false prophet. 14 They are miracle-working demonic spirits which go out to the kings of the whole inhabited world to assemble them for the War of the Great Day of Adonai-Tzva’ot. 15 (“Look! I am coming like a thief! How blessed are those who stay alert and keep their clothes clean, so that they won’t be walking naked and be publicly put to shame!”) 16 And they gathered the kings to the place which in Hebrew is called Har Megiddo.
17 The seventh one poured out his bowl on the air, and a loud voice came out of the Temple from the throne, saying, “It is done!” 18 There were flashes of lightning, voices and peals of thunder; and there was a massive earthquake, such as has never occurred since mankind has been on earth, so violent was the earthquake. 19 The great city was split into three parts, the cities of the nations fell, and God remembered Bavel the Great and made her drink the wine from the cup of his raging fury. 20 Every island fled, and no mountains were to be found. 21 And huge seventy-pound hailstones fell on people from the sky. But the people cursed God for the plague of hail, that it was such a terrible plague.
THESE 10 DEAD MEN TEN MENS NATIONS WERE THOSE USURPED AND COUNTRIES STOLEN AND CONTROLLED BY EGYPT MENES.. MENGEWI
THE MISSING ELISHAH IS NO DOUBTS THE SAME ONE WHO WAS MURDERED AND ONLY HAD A DAUGHTER WHO LIVED ( SEE NARMER'S PALLETTE AND THE SOUTH AMERICAS MOCHE " THE SITTING GODS" ) AND THESE WEALTHY GOD FEARING PEOPLE WERE JOBS FAMILY AND AT THE DEATH OF THE 10 GREAT KINGS.. (SEE NARMER'S(MN) PALETTE ) SINCE THERE IS NO SENSE IN KEEPING RECORDS OF MALE CHILDREN WHEN THERE WAS NO MALE OFFSPRING..WITH ONLY A DAUGHTER TO PASS HIS LINE TOO. BUT SHE WAS OF JOBS DAUGHTERS AND THEIR MATRILEANLIAL LINES AND FAMILIES OF NATIONS ALL THESE WOMEN WERE THEN CONTROLLED BY MENGEWI.
AND GILGAMESH AND DAMMUZE /TAMMUZ IS EVEN WAY DOWN THAT LINE OF MENGEWI / MENES / MN.. HSEE THE KING LIST HERE AND SEE WHERE MN BLOOD LINES ENTER IN... AFTER THEY KILL THE 10 GREAT KINGS..
WHO WAS USURPING OF THOSE KINGS AND THEIR KINGDOMS WITH HIS BLOOD LINES CONTROLLING THEIR MATERLINEAL SOCIETIES. THUS CONTROLLING THE RELIGION AND THE TRUBUTES AND SLAVERY AND THUS WAR IN THE WHOLE WORLD .. AND I MEAN THE WHOLE WORLD WAR WHICH
THERE WAS NOT THE OLD AND NEW WORLD UNTIL JOSHUA LONG DAY...
I had started a thread a few months ago with the question of Nephilim. Everybody had a different response, and many people just quoted Scripture. I am no closer to knowing what Nephilim are than I was before. Could someone paraphrase for me this time? What are Nephilim? Are they evil? Are they good? Does anybody know beyond a shade of a doubt?
Simple put, they are doomed.
05-04-2018, 12:05 AM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade
It is possible that the Nephilim story in the Bible came from Sumerian mythology.
The Bible borrows a lot more than Christians think:
In the article, it is argued that the origin of Watchers derives from the Mesopotamian mythology of the antediluvian sages (apkallus). More precisely, it is proposed that the mythology of Watchers and their sons the giants derived from inverted versions of various Mesopotamian myths and beliefs about apkallus. On some layers of Mesopotamian mythology and ritual practices, the sages were already regarded as dangerous and potentially malicious creatures, upon which the Jewish authors could build their parody. Among other associations, the apkallus had strong ties to Mesopotamian demonology, and they were occasionally counted as evil beings, capable of witchcraft. This shows that the wickedness of antediluvian teachers of humankind in Jewish sources was not wholly an inversion of the Mesopotamian traditions by Jewish scholars, but was partly taken from already existing trends in Mesopotamian demonology.
In the article, it is argued that the origin of Watchers derives from the Mesopotamian mythology of the antediluvian sages (apkallus). More precisely, it is proposed that the mythology of Watchers and their sons the giants derived from inverted versions of various Mesopotamian myths and beliefs about apkallus. On some layers of Mesopotamian mythology and ritual practices, the sages were already regarded as dangerous and potentially malicious creatures, upon which the Jewish authors could build their parody. Among other associations, the apkallus had strong ties to Mesopotamian demonology, and they were occasionally counted as evil beings, capable of witchcraft. This shows that the wickedness of antediluvian teachers of humankind in Jewish sources was not wholly an inversion of the Mesopotamian traditions by Jewish scholars, but was partly taken from already existing trends in Mesopotamian demonology.
I'm starting to think along these lines much more. The tanakh is a crafted document, by the ruling elite. If there's any deeper alignment beyond the wit of man, it is by God's grace and his ability to weave himself into man's corrupted campaigns.
To quote Dr Laurent Guyénot - From Yahweh to Zion: 'The over-arching theme of the Bible (tanakh) is the relationship between Yahweh and his people. But according to a critical reading, the Bible is actually the history of the relationship between the priestly elite speaking for Yahweh and the Jewish people, who are sometimes submissive, and sometimes rebellious to authority.'
Basically, say whatever you need to say to get compliance. And mix in as much mythology as you like to create mystical awe and fear of the unknown. It's no different today - what we know is largely what we're told, and for the same reasons.
Does it matter if there were large, giant people and how they appeared? ...not to me, right here, today - they're not going to add one bit of value to anything.
The sons of god did do as enoch said.
But the sons of God were perfected men as Adam was before he fell. Even Enoch and elijah were perfected ALSO . So no the nephillim were not demons spawn . Jesus clearly states angels can not breed.. But they were perfected human spawn. Perfected men like Jesus who fell from their place in heaven..
And we could not tell the falling genes of one or the other or any of the sons of God.
But everything bigger than us does not mean it is a demon spawn either .
Because we don't know how big Adam was or any men pre flood.
And head shaping skulls do not prove women married demons or fallen angels either .
With nearly twice the pressure and half again as much oxygen, all animals and plants were larger WERE MANY TIMES LARGER AND MORE PRODUCTIVE , so men were also larger. We do not know now how much larger mankind once was. SO EVERYTHING BIGGER THAN YOU ISN'T A GIANT EITHER.
Here are a couple of 28 minute videos in which Old Testament scholar Michael Heiser discusses the Nephilim and demons and the Mesopotamian back story to them on SkyWatch TV. A brief mention of the Apkallus is made in the second video.
Dr. Michael Heiser - Understanding the Genesis 6 Giants
Not many want to hear this, but they are fallen spirits, the offspring of the angels that fell after joining themselves to women. It has been suggested the flood was to cleanse them out of the bloodline of man.
"Let the dead bury the dead
This conversation isnt even for unbelievers to bother with..
given that they are still without a counselor. they' being stubborn have ignored whos Government is on the shoulders of the Children who Love him.
They havent even realized that they are wretchedly despising the truth of what Yeshua taught about the washing of the word.
the levitical preisthood was to be a servant to the royal preisthood with a call of memorial and Zacharias is the faithfull witness. even if he wasnt able to speak for a moment, the stones cried out.
He is coming.
And God saw the earth, and behold it had become corrupted, for all flesh had corrupted its way on the earth.
“But the Levitical priests, the sons of Zadok, who kept the charge of my sanctuary when the people of Israel went astray from me, shall come near to me to minister to me. And they shall stand before me to offer me the fat and the blood, declares the Lord God. 16 They shall enter my sanctuary, and they shall approach my table, to minister to me, and they shall keep my charge. 17 When they enter the gates of the inner court, they shall wear linen garments. They shall have nothing of wool on them, while they minister at the gates of the inner court, and within. 18 They shall have linen turbans on their heads, and linen undergarments around their waists. They shall not bind themselves with anything that causes sweat. 19 And when they go out into the outer court to the people, they shall put off the garments in which they have been ministering and lay them in the holy chambers. And they shall put on other garments, lest they transmit holiness to the people with their garments. 20 They shall not shave their heads or let their locks grow long; they shall surely trim the hair of their heads. 21 No priest shall drink wine when he enters the inner court. 22 They shall not marry a widow or a divorced woman, but only virgins of the offspring of the house of Israel, or a widow who is the widow of a priest. 23 They shall teach my people the difference between the holy and the common, and show them how to distinguish between the unclean and the clean. 24 In a dispute, they shall act as judges, and they shall judge it according to my judgments. They shall keep my laws and my statutes in all my appointed feasts, and they shall keep my Sabbaths holy.
25 They shall not defile themselves by going near to a dead person.
However, for father or mother, for son or daughter, for brother or unmarried sister they may defile themselves. 26 After he[a] has become clean, they shall count seven days(steps) for him. 27 And on the day that he goes into the Holy Place, into the inner court, to minister in the Holy Place, he shall offer his sin offering, declares the Lord God.
On the Shoulder{"So the people took their dough before it was leavened, with their kneading bowls bound up in the clothes on their shoulders."}
{"So it will be in that day, that his burden will be removed from your shoulders and his yoke from your neck, and the yoke will be broken because of fatness."} 1 From: Shim‘on Kefa, a slave and emissary of Yeshua the Messiah
To: Those who, through the righteousness of our God and of our Deliverer Yeshua the Messiah, have been given the same kind of trust as ours:
2 May grace and shalom be yours in full measure, as you come to a full knowledge of God and Yeshua our Lord.
3 God’s power has given us everything we need for life and godliness, through our knowing the One who called us to his own glory and goodness. 4 By these he has given us valuable and superlatively great promises, so that through them you might come to share in God’s nature and escape the corruption which evil desires have brought into the world.
5 For this very reason, try your hardest to furnish your faith with goodness, goodness with knowledge, 6 knowledge with self-control, self-control with perseverance, perseverance with godliness, 7 godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. 8 For if you have these qualities in abundance(ladies), they keep you from being barren and unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah. 9 Indeed, whoever lacks them is blind, so shortsighted that he forgets that his past sins have been washed away. 10 Therefore, brothers, try even harder to make your being called and chosen a certainty. For if you keep doing this, you will never stumble. 11 Thus you will be generously supplied with everything you need to enter the eternal Kingdom of our Lord and Deliverer, Yeshua the Messiah.
28 “This shall be their inheritance: I am their inheritance: and you shall give them no possession in Israel; I am their possession. 29 They shall eat the grain offering, the sin offering, and the guilt offering, and every devoted thing in Israel shall be theirs. 30 And the first of all the firstfruits of all kinds, and every offering of all kinds from all your offerings, shall belong to the priests. You shall also give to the priests the first of your dough, that a blessing may rest on your house. 31 The priests shall not eat of anything, whether bird or beast, that has died of itself or is torn by wild animals.
"But they refused to pay attention and turned a stubborn shoulder and stopped their ears from hearing.
Last edited by pinacled; 05-04-2018 at 09:30 AM..
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