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Your question is false and misleading. First, it is not what I think and hope for. It is what the Scriptures tells us. I showed in Romans where you need to be a believer, Paul also wrote Timothy. He is not contradicting himself
Now Show me exactly where in the Bible that says God will save all , regardless of belief. Omission is not proof.
only one thing you are not considering: that change is possible after death.
"For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."
Please note:
many= polus and is equal on both sides of the equation.
Polus made sinners.....polus made righteous.
BREAKING GOOD NEWS
Apostle Paul reports that the impact of death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord, Jesus Christ, 2,000 years ago shown to be more, not less, powerful than the disobedience of man He created 4,000 years prior (Romans 5:19)! Christians "horrified" and "offended" by this "heresy!" Furiously argue redemption of all mankind is an "insult to the cross of Christ"... -John Moneypenny-
We all want our fellow man to spend eternity in paradise. But we are not God. And we don’t make the rules. I don’t know who Moneypenny is and I don’t really care. As far as your whole argument hinging on one word is not valid. You need to take the whole book into context.
Personally, I think you are playing an extremely dangerous game with the Lord. You should take His Word seriously.
We all want our fellow man to spend eternity in paradise. But we are not God. And we don’t make the rules. I don’t know who Moneypenny is and I don’t really care. As far as your whole argument hinging on one word is not valid. You need to take the whole book into context.
Personally, I think you are playing an extremely dangerous game with the Lord. You should take His Word seriously.
Now Show me exactly where in the Bible that says God will save all , regardless of belief. Omission is not proof.
1 Timothy 2:4
... who desires ALL people to be saved and come to full knowledge of [the] truth.
It's an active, ongoing result of a previous action.
And in the ongoing result of that action; desires (wants, wills) ALL men to be saved and come to the knowledge of truth. The action is indicative. Nowhere is it subjunctive, or that of being contingent or probable, nor imperative on the subjects response. Neither is it Optative, as in being unlikely or wishful thinking that mankind might come to this salvation and knowledge.
We all want our fellow man to spend eternity in paradise. But we are not God. And we don’t make the rules. I don’t know who Moneypenny is and I don’t really care. As far as your whole argument hinging on one word is not valid. You need to take the whole book into context.
Personally, I think you are playing an extremely dangerous game with the Lord. You should take His Word seriously.
Another verse for you. It doesn't help you at this time, with the whole book context, but that isn't what's needed here.
Here it is: That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.
This verse is inclusive of all. Whether people believe before death is immaterial, unless you want a 'better salvation', which is worth some labour and strife according to the text, and reality. The 'all' still get 'saved' - they just have more works burned in the fire - Father's purifying, refining fire.
The truth is that that God that the text speaks of is whom Jesus called Abba, which literally means Daddy.
As a Dad, I can't think of a scenario where I would want my children to think of me as we think of God, in the context of sin and salvation and the potential of "going to a never ending hell". That is all.coming from judgement, rooted in fear, and it doesn't have any hope for restoration.
I wouldn't do that to my own children. Even as an imperfect Dad, I hope I would always have hope for them.
There isn't any extremely dangerous game you can play with Father, because he isn't like that. Like the Father of the two sons, He is always looking to the horizon, ready to run towards us at the first sign.
There are too many verses that rejects the idea of Universalism. Saying “Jesus” and “God” in a religion is not the same thing as putting your faith in Jesus. The Scriptures tell you about Jesus, Holy Spirit, and God. You either accept it or reject it. Universalism has rejected the Truth.
the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23*for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24*and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25*whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith.
The epistemological problem for 'faith' is that, as a seed, it is given by God. It cannot be generated by us.
'...and this not of yourself, it is a gift of God.'
And yet the bible text does refer to 'your faith', and so we think "oh, yes, it's my faith that causes me to believe".
No, no. It's not my faith - never was my faith - it is Christ in me.
And the fact of life on earth is that there are vast swathes of people who have no confession of faith - if you hold to the salvation narrative, it is the confession (with the mouth) of faith in Christ that saves a person.
But it is not the whole truth, which is that Christ has saved all - the body of Christ is a state of being, available to all, not an exclusive club you get in with a limited number of VIP passes. Paul always looking for the better resurrection - the righteousness of God - that was his ordained path. And those who are 'saved' without believing before death of the body - that is their ordained path.
Last edited by Age-enduring; 05-09-2018 at 02:06 AM..
I was on that forum for a short time and found that the immaturity flowed both ways, it was never one sided as Mr. Jarber would have people believe. Although I do realize that he uses biased or misleading information to serve his purpose or agenda much like that of a politician.
It takes two to tango but I can see you have no respect for others.
Christian Universalism is banned from being discussed at CARM. So much for the 1st Amendment right. It must be a very threatening topic.
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