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pneuma, how is one supposed to cross back over the chasm Jesus speaks of? Along those same lines, how will one belong to Christ once the wedding feast has concluded?
The Jews have a different understanding of that chasm - that it is the river Jordan, with all of the symbolism that it has. Abraham had a gentile servant, Eliezer (Lazarus)...etc., etc. You can research it yourself - it's in Julie Ferwerda's book Raising Hell, where I read it - available as a free pdf off her website. Basically, Jesus and all his hearers wouldn't have had a fundamentalist Christian interpretation on that parable.
The wedding feast parable is not a one off event in time and space, somewhere in the past, present or future, where you win or lose and that's your lot. It's happening 'all the time', and the moment of us Being any one of those invited who didn't come, did come, or had the wrong garments is NOW.
P.S. ref the chasm; Abraham was a Hebrew - 'one who has crossed over'
No, you twisted a few, none saying what you think, if read literally.
Matt. 25:41, 46
Mark 9:44
Luke 16:19-31
John 3
Daniel 12:2
The parable of the Weddng Feast
The parable of the Weeds
Luke 16:19-31 Guess I already addressed this one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
That word chasm is only used once in scripture, however the parable is about the chasm between the Jew and the gentle. The chasm is the middle wall of partition that Jesus broke down. What the law could not do Jesus did.
Eph 2:11-18
11Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
I will get to the wedding feast Jimmie , going through your scriptures in order.
KJV
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:*42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:*43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.*44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?*45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did*it*not to one of the least of these, ye did*it*not to me.*46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
YLT
41Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers;*42for I did hunger, and ye gave me not to eat; I did thirst, and ye gave me not to drink;*43a stranger I was, and ye did not receive me; naked, and ye put not around me; infirm, and in prison, and ye did not look after me.*44‘Then shall they answer, they also, saying, Lord, when did we see thee hungering, or thirsting, or a stranger, or naked, or infirm, or in prison, and we did not minister to thee?*45‘Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say to you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of these, the least, ye did [it] not to me.*46And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.’
So which translation is more accurate Jimmie?
I have already shown you that the aion according to the scriptures END. So we can, because the scriptures state, the aion END do away with the eternal/without end translation. That is if you agree with the scriptures that tell us the aion ENDS.
If you do not agree the aion ENDS please tell me why?
Here is a small article I wrote awhile back when Matt Slick used these same scriptures to say universalism is a lie.
MUCH MORE then aionios life
*
Many of God people believe aionios life is the fullness of life in Christ, and because of this error they have a hard time answering the eternal punishment and eternal life scriptures.
*
They will state such things as aionios can mean something different within one sentence, and it subject determines the fullness or lack thereof of the meaning.
*
But we need not change the meaning of aionios in such a fashion to understand Gods eternal (as in without beginning and without end) being. For there are other words in scripture to show forth Gods eternal (as in without beginning and without end) being.
*
Before I show how God is eternal in the sense of without beginning and without end lets look at a few more scriptures that will help the reader understand aionios only means age-lasting and is of limited duration.
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The Hebrew word for aionios is olam, so lets look at a few scriptures from the old testament.
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Habakkuk 3:6
6 He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting.
*
The reader can see here that both the hills and Gods ways are everlasting. So if olam or aionios in the Greek means without beginning and without end then the hills had no beginning and will have no end, but we know that the hills have a beginning and we know that they have an end because they bow down.
*
Now the only way for those who believe olam means eternal can get around this is to say olam means one thing in the first part of the sentence and means something else in the second part of the sentence. *
*
*
Psalm 41:13
13 Blessed be the LORD God of Israel from everlasting, and to everlasting. Amen, and Amen.
*
Psalm 90:1-2
1 Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations. 2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
*
Here the reader can see God is from olam/aionios to olam/aionios.
If olam/aionios means without beginning and without end then these scripture makes absolutely no sense, for can there be more then ONE eternity? Hardly, so the reader cans see olam/aionios is used in the limited sense of age-lasting.
*
So the reader can see olam/aionios means age-lasting and is always used in a limited sense.
*
But some will say if it is always used in a limited sense then that would mean aionios life is also limited in duration. This is CORRECT, aionios life is of limited duration.
I already know many will say that’s blaspheme, but bare with me for a few more moments if you will.
*
Lets go back to Ps.90 for a moment and read it again.
*
Psalm 90:1-2
1 Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations. 2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
*
We have already seen olam/aionios is of limited duration, but what else does this scripture tell us? It tells us that the LIFE of God is GREATER then that of olam/aionios, for God is FROM olam/aionios TO olam/aionios.
*
The Life of God and of Christ is not just olam/aionios but their LIFE is MORE then that, yea MUCH MORE. Their LIFE exceeds the olam/aionios life just as a week exceeds a day, a month exceeds a week and a year exceeds a month, so to does the LIFE of God in Christ exceed olam/aionios LIFE.
*
The error both camps fall into is the belief that aionios life is all the life there is in God and Christ. But as the reader just read God is FROM olam/aionios TO olam/aionios, thus is it not then clear that we to in Christ are given a LIFE far greater then just olam/aionios LIFE.
*
Lets read in Hebrew and you will see Christ life (and therefore ours) exceeds that of olam/aionios life.
*
Hebrews 7:16
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
*
Akatalutos-Endless: indissoluble, not subject to destruction
From the root of A or Alpha: Christ is the Alpha to indicate that he is the beginning and the end
*
Now as Akatalutos-Endless clearly shows that of a life without end, why did not the writers of the scriptures use Akatalutos concerning punishment and life instead of olam/aionios? Is it not because olam/aionios is of limited duration?
*
What we receive in Christ is a AKATALUTOS/ENDLESS LIFE, a life that spans EVERY olam/aionios age-lasting life. Just as Gods life is FROM olam/aionios TO olam/aionios so to is ours in Christ.
*
Lets read in Pet. To further see this life we are to inherit that is MUCH MORE then olam/aionios life.
*
1 Peter 1:3-4
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
*
Aphthartos-incorruptible: uncorrupted, not liable to corruption or decay, imperishable
Again From the root of A or Alpha: Christ is the Alpha to indicate that he is the beginning and the end
*
Amarantos-fadeth not away: not fading away, unfading, perennial
Again From the root of A or Alpha: Christ is the Alpha to indicate that he is the beginning and the end
*
Can not the reader see here just how much more grand our life is in Christ then just olam/aionios age-abiding life?
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These are just a few examples of how MUCH MORE our life in Christ is then olam/aionios life.
*
If punishment was to be eternal in the sense of without beginning and without end surely the Holy Spirit would have use one of the words expressed above to show this, but NEVER is any of these words that express endlessness EVER used in the punishments of God.
*
Praise God there is MUCH MORE to life in Christ then just that of olam/aionios life, and it is because so many of God people do not realise this that they fall into the error of changing the meaning of words within the same sentence.
*
Brothers and sister there is absolutely no need to do this if one can but see the life we have in Christ is MUCH MORE then olam/aionios life.
*
Even FROM everlasting TO everlasting, thou art God.
You've acknowledged that the Hebrew word Olam and the Greek word aionios are synonymous terms. Your statement - ''The Hebrew word for aionios is olam.''
Yet you claim that both words refer only to a limited duration. Your statement.- ''aionios only means age-lasting and is of limited duration.''
In making that claim you're claiming that resurrection is only of temporary duration rather than unending because Daniel 12:2 uses the word 'Olam' with reference to those who are to be resurrected. Some to everlasting life, and some to everlasting contempt.
Daniel 12:2 "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting (olam) life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting (olam) contempt.
But resurrection is not of a limited duration.
Luke 20:34 Jesus said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, 35] but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36] for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Olam/aionios/eternal life is actually the life of the age to come. Resurrection life is endless, not of limited duration.
The resurrected Jesus says of Himself;
Revelation 1:17 When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, "Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18] and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore (εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων), and I have the keys of death and of Hades.
εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων/to the ages of the ages. Translated in the NASB as 'forevermore.' This is the resurrected Jesus. He was not saying that He was dead but is now alive for a limited duration.
But as Daniel 12:2 shows, some will be resurrected to Olam life while others will be resurrected to disgrace and olam contempt. In order to maintain that Olam contempt is of limited duration you have to maintain that resurrection is also of limited duration, which it is not.
Daniel 12:2 demonstrates that your claim that Olam/aionios is of limited duration is false.
Depending on the context Olam/aionios can refer either to limited duration or to unending duration. And legitimate Hebrew and Greek scholars understand this.
Last edited by Michael Way; 05-19-2018 at 01:28 PM..
I knew it would clang off your Fundashield Of Determined Ignorance.
What I wonder is what is involved to deploy the fundashield? Is it like Star Trek where they have to say activate the shields? Or is it like a bot, it automatically hears something that is against its programming and it deploys them instantly, without forethought?
Inquiring minds want to know.
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