Let's discuss equations (creation, eternity, Abraham, Jewish)

Originally Posted by Pleroo

I'll let others debate that with you, if they wish. I still don't see that what you're saying negates that the same all who are made sinners, in that passage, are the same all who are made alive.

Your thinking too individualistic. Paul's point is that the all is in reference to the nations, all not under the law, it is a general point about Gentiles being brought into the fold of Abraham's children. Think more corporately. When God accuses his nation, Israel, of all having gone astray yet not every individual has done so it is precisely the language Paul is using. That's why the grammar using 'the multitudes' is important here. All nations are invited to the table but that does not mean all individuals are going to have faith in the offer that the gift of Christ to the World brings - justification and righteousness - Abraham being the father of the example before the law was even given. I don't know how else the context can be clearer but it may be because Gentiles don't understand the corporate nature of Jewish thinking.

Anyway, I'm not too bent of making this a drawn out debate. As I said I really have no ax to grind here.

[Rose2Luv]

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

The context of Paul's verses in Romans is not about after death.

Correct friend, that would be the Apostle Peter!

American Standard Version
1 Peter 4:6 (ASV) For unto this end was the gospel preached even to the dead, that they might be judged indeed according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

The Bible in Basic English
1 Peter 4:6 (BBE) For this was the reason why the good news of Jesus was given even to the dead, so that they might be judged as men in the flesh, but might be living before God in the spirit.

Common English Bible
1 Peter 4:6 (CEB) Indeed, this is the reason the good news was also preached to the dead. This happened so that, although they were judged as humans according to human standards, they could live by the Spirit according to divine standards.

Common English Bible w/ Apocrypha
1 Peter 4:6 (CEBA) Indeed, this is the reason the good news was also preached to the dead. This happened so that, although they were judged as humans according to human standards, they could live by the Spirit according to divine standards.

The Complete Jewish Bible
1 Peter 4:6 (CJB) This is why he was proclaimed to those who have died; it was so that, although physically they would receive the judgment common to all humanity, they might live by the Spirit in the way that God has provided.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
1 Peter 4:6 (CSB) For this reason the gospel was also preached to [those who are now] dead, so that, although they might be judged by men in the fleshly realm, they might live by God in the spiritual realm.

The Darby Translation
1 Peter 4:6 (DBY) For to this [end] were the glad tidings preached to [the] dead also, that they might be judged, as regards men, after [the] flesh, but live, as regards God, after [the] Spirit.

English Standard Version
1 Peter 4:6 (ESV) For this is why the gospel was preached even to those who are dead, that though judged in the flesh the way people are, they might live in the spirit the way God does.

Good News Translation
1 Peter 4:6 (GNT) That is why the Good News was preached also to the dead, to those who had been judged in their physical existence as everyone is judged; it was preached to them so that in their spiritual existence they may live as God lives.

Good News Translation w/ Apocrypha
1 Peter 4:6 (GNTA) That is why the Good News was preached also to the dead, to those who had been judged in their physical existence as everyone is judged; it was preached to them so that in their spiritual existence they may live as God lives.

GOD'S WORD Translation
1 Peter 4:6 (GW) After all, the Good News was told to people like that, although they are now dead. It was told to them so that they could be judged like humans in their earthly lives and live like God in their spiritual lives.

Hebrew Names Version
1 Peter 4:6 (HNV) For to this end was the Good News preached even to the dead, that they might be judged indeed as men in the flesh, but live as to God in the spirit.

Jubilee Bible 2000
1 Peter 4:6 (JUB) Because for this cause was the gospel preached also to those that are dead, that they might be judged in flesh according to men, but live in spirit according to God.

Lexham English Bible
1 Peter 4:6 (LEB) Because for this reason also the gospel was preached to those who are dead, so that they were judged {by human standards} in the flesh, but they may live in the spirit {by God's standards}.

New American Standard Bible
1 Peter 4:6 (NAS) For the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God.

New Century Version
1 Peter 4:6 (NCV) For this reason the Good News was preached to those who are now dead. Even though they were judged like all people, the Good News was preached to them so they could live in the spirit as God lives.

New International Reader's Version
1 Peter 4:6 (NIRV) That's why the good news was preached even to people who are now dead. Human judges said they were guilty as far as their bodies were concerned. But God set their spirits free to live as he wanted them to.

New International Version
1 Peter 4:6 (NIV) For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

New Living Translation
1 Peter 4:6 (NLT) That is why the Good News was preached to those who are now dead —so although they were destined to die like all people, they now live forever with God in the Spirit.

New Revised Standard
1 Peter 4:6 (NRS) For this is the reason the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead, so that, though they had been judged in the flesh as everyone is judged, they might live in the spirit as God does.

New Revised Standard w/ Apocrypha
1 Peter 4:6 (NRSA) For this is the reason the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead, so that, though they had been judged in the flesh as everyone is judged, they might live in the spirit as God does.

Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible
1 Peter 4:6 (RHE) For, for this cause was the gospel preached also to the dead: That they might be judged indeed according to men, in the flesh: but may live according to God, in the Spirit.

Revised Standard Version
1 Peter 4:6 (RSV) For this is why the gospel was preached even to the dead, that though judged in the flesh like men, they might live in the spirit like God.

Revised Standard Version w/ Apocrypha
1 Peter 4:6 (RSVA) For this is why the gospel was preached even to the dead, that though judged in the flesh like men, they might live in the spirit like God.

SBL Greek New Testament
1 Peter 4:6 (SBLG) εἰς τοῦτο γὰρ καὶ νεκροῖς εὐηγγελίσθη ἵνα κριθῶσι μὲν κατὰ ἀνθρώπους σαρκὶ ζῶσι δὲ κατὰ θεὸν πνεύματι.

Third Millennium Bible
1 Peter 4:6 (TMB) For, for this cause was the Gospel preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Tyndale
1 Peter 4:6 (TYN) For vnto this purpose verely was ye gospell preached vnto the (deed) that they shuld be condempned of men in ye flesshe but shuld live before God in the sprete.

The Webster Bible
1 Peter 4:6 (WBT) For, for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

World English Bible
1 Peter 4:6 (WEB) For to this end was the gospel preached even to the dead, that they might be judged indeed as men in the flesh, but live as to God in the spirit.

Young's Literal Translation
1 Peter 4:6 (YLT) for for this also to dead men was good news proclaimed, that they may be judged, indeed, according to men in the flesh, and may live according to God in the spirit.

[Jerwade]

Originally Posted by BaptistFundie

Weird...because we have Scripture that explicitly states he does not know some. That others will be cast into the fiery pit. That some will not believe and will be condemned.

I mean..you can't make this stuff up. It's like everything you say explicitly contradicts what Jesus said.

I believe the people he didn't associate with were those who condemned others, and he was always correcting them.

[Pleroo]

Originally Posted by Jerwade

I believe the people he didn't associate with were those who condemned others, and he was always correcting them.

Yes, the favorite passages that ET believers are always trotting out to condemn sinners, are often directed at the religious types who were trying to keep others out of the Kingdom they thought they owned.

[Jerwade]

Originally Posted by Pleroo

I'll let others debate that with you, if they wish. I still don't see that what you're saying negates that the same all who are made sinners, in that passage, are the same all who are made alive.

It doesn't.

Originally Posted by Rose2Luv

Correct friend, that would be the Apostle Peter!

American Standard Version
1 Peter 4:6 (ASV) For unto this end was the gospel preached even to the dead, that they might be judged indeed according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

In context the phrase those who are dead refers to those now dead who had accepted the gospel while they were still living and had suffered persecution for their faith. Though they “suffered judgment” in this earthly life (i.e., they died, in the midst of physical abuse from the ungodly), they will enjoy life from God in the spiritual, heavenly realm because of the gospel (v. 6b). It clearly does not assume a second chance for conversion offered to unbelievers who had died; why would Peter urge people to suffer in this life for the sake of the gospel if he believed that mercy would be extended to all the dead in the hereafter (cf. 2:7-8; 4:1-5, 12-19)?

'And if the righteous are barely saved, what will become of the ungodly and sinners?'

According to you they will be saved as well. But that makes no sense in Peter's view.

Originally Posted by Jerwade

It doesn't.

There is nothing to negate - it is you guys who are not understanding the context and grammar of the passage. You just rip it out of context and think is says what it does not.

[Pleroo]

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

There is nothing to negate - it is you guys who are not understanding the context and grammar of the passage. You just rip it out of context and think is says what it does not.

Does the corporate all mean that every individual in all nations are sinners "in Adam", or just some of them?

Originally Posted by Pleroo

Does the corporate all mean that every individual in all nations are sinners "in Adam", or just some of them?

Yes, but that is not the thought or argument that he is getting at. That is a given! What is not a given is that all are made righteous without faith.

[Jerwade]

Originally Posted by Pleroo

I'll let others debate that with you, if they wish. I still don't see that what you're saying negates that the same all who are made sinners, in that passage, are the same all who are made alive.

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

Yes, but that is not the thought or argument that he is getting at. That is a given! What is not a given is that all are made righteous without faith.

How does faith make you righteous?