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In the near future, I will be traveling with my uncle, who considers himself a Christian, but does not believe in non-believers burning for all eternity, to TN to visit my aunts, who are evangelical Christians who preach the Hell doctrine like they have all their lives. The idea that ~anyone~ including my aunts and every other Christian out there who believes in the idea of eternal hellfire really, I mean, really bothers me.
My question is thus - why is this such a "sticky" part of the Christian doctrine? Who in their right mind would believe in an sadistic, twisted Supreme Being who would torture non-believers to all eternity in a place of unimaginable horrors? What about the passage in the Bible which states that the wicked will be burned in the lake of fire in the so-called "second death"? Doesn't that preclude the idea of eternal torment? Should I mention this to my aunts? Or should I just "go along" with it like I have in the past when they invariably bring it up?
Christians and non-Christians alike, feel free to weigh in on this most dreadful of topics.
FYI - I consider myself spiritual, although I have practiced Christianity in the past. By most people's standards, I do come off as pretty agnostic, as I'm very much a "gotta see it to believe it" kind of guy.
"Punish a man for his sins, that is just: punish him for ages...that may be just: but make no end of punishing him for that sin, reduce him from a man to a devil, let him become for ever vile, that is not just. The only justice to a sinner in a case like our human one is mercy, is to make his punishment finite according to his works...and of such a nature as not simply to torment the man, but to drive him back to the way of God." -Rev. T. P. Forsyth M.A.
"God does nothing of which any just man, the thing set fairly and fully before him so that he understood, would say, 'That is fair.'...to say on the authority of the Bible that God does a thing no honourable man would do, is to lie against God; to say that it is therefore right, is to lie against the very spirit of God.....More is required of the Maker, by his own act of creation, than can be required of men. More and higher justice and righteousness is required of him by himself, the Truth;- greater nobleness, more penetrating sympathy; and nothing but what, if an honest man understood it, he would say was right." -George MacDonald`
I wonder why George MacDonald thought that was just.
My friend, Rose cannot speak for G.M., but the Restitution of all things spoken in/by/thru the prophets does not, I repeat does not, eliminate change and transformation in the outworking of His great Plan. Is punishment for wrongdoing part of this alignment? Absolutely! Would you like to discuss this further with Scripture? If so please start a new thread, and I will attempt to rise to the occasion.
I wonder why George MacDonald thought that was just.
My friend, Rose cannot speak for G.M., but the Restitution of all things spoken in/by/thru the prophets does not, I repeat does not, eliminate change and transformation in the outworking of His great Plan. Is punishment for wrongdoing part of this alignment? Absolutely! Would you like to discuss this further with Scripture? If so please start a new thread, and I will attempt to rise to the occasion.
My friend, Rose cannot speak for G.M., but the Restitution of all things spoken in/by/thru the prophets does not, I repeat does not, eliminate change and transformation in the outworking of His great Plan. Is punishment for wrongdoing part of this alignment? Absolutely! Would you like to discuss this further with Scripture? If so please start a new thread, and I will attempt to rise to the occasion.
If punishment created change and transformation, then I'd see the point. As it is, punishment is simply vengeance (a human, not divine concept), and accomplishes nothing of worth. I would not like to discuss with bible verses, thanks anyway, but you're obviously welcome to post whatever you wish.
The eternal offense of sin to an eternal God demands an eternal punishment. The Luke 16 story of hell implies everyone IN hell knows perfectly well why they are there and how long it will last. God is NOT interested in our opinions, He could care less, His creation and His rules. ALL those worried about hell should know they don't have to go there, instead through faith they can spend a glorious eternity with Jesus thanks to the free gift of grace.
The eternal offense of sin to an eternal God demands an eternal punishment. The Luke 16 story of hell implies everyone IN hell knows perfectly well why they are there and how long it will last. God is NOT interested in our opinions, He could care less, His creation and His rules. ALL those worried about hell should know they don't have to go there, instead through faith they can spend a glorious eternity with Jesus thanks to the free gift of grace.
See the post about 1Cor 15:1-4
He could care less about our opinions? Careful Vf6, you may end up getting what you believe, He just might be the real hard ass that you seem to believe He is to you as well. Get what you believe my friend.
I'll answer. It's because they are so out of touch with God and reality that they find it impossible to enjoy life. So the only way they can cope is to imagine all of the spiritually whole people who do enjoy life, as suffering in torment in payment for that joy. It's only "fair".
I am pretty sure that G-d expects you to enjoy life, after all, He commands you to use part of your tithe and buy strong drink and to make merry at the feast...
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