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And who supplied the thief with that faith to begin with? Is He not the author and finisher of our faith? I think the subject is also being over complicated. All God wants from us is a contrite heart. We need to always be humble and what amazes me most about God...He has a meek Spirit. Isn't that incredible? All the power in the universe and our God is loving AND meek. Doesn't need billions kneeling before Him worshiping. He wants us to be like Him(always giving to others), that's all.
"Looking unto Jesus the Author and Finisher of faith" Yes, no "our" in the koine!
“The work of Christ on the cross did not influence God to love us, did not increase that love by one degree, did not open any fount of grace or mercy in His heart. He had loved us from old eternity and needed nothing to stimulate that love. The cross is not responsible for God's love; rather it was His love which conceived the cross as the one method by which we could be saved. God felt no different toward us after Christ had died for us, for in the mind of God Christ had already died before the foundation of the world. God never saw us except through atonement. The human race could not have existed one day in its fallen state had not Christ spread His mantle of atonement over it. And this He did in eternal purpose long ages before they led Him out to die on the hill above Jerusalem. All God's dealings with man have been conditioned upon the cross.” - A.W. Tozer
other book has remained a verified and pure as that Holy book.. because other people in history believed in something being HOLY and thus special and not to be trifled with. It is this society and generation that veiws nothing as holy and absolutely nothing that isn't fair game for thier sick little jokes. .
But it is perfect in Intent to both inspire wisdom, knowledge and spark true relationship through prayer meditation and inquiry of His Holy Spirit for more understanding. TO gain in His childrens Knowldge of HIM , His son and his spirit's workings.
SO it is perfect in it's purposes to bring his people to the Full stature of faith and truth and trust as God's children..
And who supplied the thief with that faith to begin with? Is He not the author and finisher of our faith? I think the subject is also being over complicated. All God wants from us is a contrite heart. We need to always be humble and what amazes me most about God...He has a meek Spirit. Isn't that incredible? All the power in the universe and our God is loving AND meek. Doesn't need billions kneeling before Him worshiping. He wants us to be like Him(always giving to others), that's all.
Actually, Hebrews 12:2 doesn't say 'our faith.' In the Greek, the word πίστεως - pisteōs - faith is preceded by the article τῆς - tēs which is the genitive case. Jesus is the author and finisher 'of the faith,' which would indicate the gospel, or more broadly, the Christian faith - Christianity.
God doesn't give us personal faith. Personal faith is our response to the gospel. If God had to supply our personal faith in Christ Jesus which we need to have in order to be saved, that would mean that God withholds faith from those who don't believe in Christ and will spend the eternal future separated from God in the lake of fire. But the Bible says that God desires that all men be saved (1 Tim. 2:4).
Since God desires that all men be saved, and yet all men are not saved, it would be illogical for God to withhold the faith which we need to be saved.
Actually, Hebrews 12:2 doesn't say 'our faith.' In the Greek, the word πίστεως - pisteōs - faith is preceded by the article τῆς - tēs which is the genitive case. Jesus is the author and finisher 'of the faith,' which would indicate the gospel, or more broadly, the Christian faith - Christianity.
"simply fixing our gaze upon Jesus, our Prince Leader in the faith, who will also award us the prize. He, for the sake of the joy which lay before Him, patiently endured the cross, looking with contempt upon its shame, and afterwards seated Himself-- where He still sits--at the right hand of the throne of God.
Wycliffe=
"beholding into the maker of faith, and the perfect ender, Jesus; which when joy was purposed to him, he suffered the cross [suffered the cross], and despised confusion, and sitteth on the right half of the seat of God.
Young's Literal Translation=
"looking to the author and perfecter of faith -- Jesus, who, over-against the joy set before him -- did endure a cross, shame having despised, on the right hand also of the throne of God did sit down;
American Standard Version=
"looking unto Jesus the author and perfecter of [our] faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising shame, and hath sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Since God desires that all men be saved, and yet all men are not saved, it would be illogical for God to withhold the faith which we need to be saved.
Mike: I suggest you examine the koine for "desire" at your earliest convenience.
Want/wish/desire
They are often used in place of one another. They both largely means “want.” You may wish for something, however, unless and until you desire it, you will not get it. ... Wishing for something may not have the same compelling intensity as the desire may have.
Who Willeth=
Willeth (qelei)
"Who willeth all mankind to be saved"
"Who is constantly willing (continuously intending) all mankind (all men) to be saved (delivered; rescued; made healthy and whole), and (even) to come into a full, accurate, experiential and intimate knowledge of Truth (or: into a realization of [the] Truth),
for God [is] One, and One [is the] Mediator of God and mankind, a Man, Christ Jesus (or: for [there is] one God, and one medium between God and men. [the] human, Christ Jesus),
the One giving Himself a correspondent ransom (a ransom in the place of and directed toward the situation) over (for) all (everyone; as a masc.: all men; as a nuet: all things) - the witness (testimony; omitted by A) [will come] in its own fitting situations" -Jonathan Mitchell Translation-
Rose is really slow and discombobulated most of the time, however, Rose believes the Sovereign Lord of the universe has a determined purpose in the Son of His love, and that purpose shall be realized in every detail! EVERY!
Mike: I suggest you examine the koine for "desire" at your earliest convenience.
Want/wish/desire
They are often used in place of one another. They both largely means “want.†You may wish for something, however, unless and until you desire it, you will not get it. ... Wishing for something may not have the same compelling intensity as the desire may have.
Who Willeth=
Willeth (qelei)
"Who willeth all mankind to be saved"
"Who is constantly willing (continuously intending) all mankind (all men) to be saved (delivered; rescued; made healthy and whole), and (even) to come into a full, accurate, experiential and intimate knowledge of Truth (or: into a realization of [the] Truth),
for God [is] One, and One [is the] Mediator of God and mankind, a Man, Christ Jesus (or: for [there is] one God, and one medium between God and men. [the] human, Christ Jesus),
the One giving Himself a correspondent ransom (a ransom in the place of and directed toward the situation) over (for) all (everyone; as a masc.: all men; as a nuet: all things) - the witness (testimony; omitted by A) [will come] in its own fitting situations" -Jonathan Mitchell Translation-
Rose is really slow and discombobulated most of the time, however, Rose believes the Sovereign Lord of the universe has a determined purpose in the Son of His love, and that purpose shall be realized in every detail! EVERY!
While God does desire that all men be saved, that desire is not at the expense of a genuine faith response to the gospel without which no man will be saved. God's desire to save all men will not cause Him to violate human volition in the matter. Since not all men want anything to do with God and will reject the gospel, not all men will be saved.
Paul, who wrote 1 Timothy 2:4 also wrote 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9.
2 Thessalonians 1:8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9] These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
Passages such as Matthew 25:41-46 and Revelation 20:11-15 are clear statements that not all men will be saved and therefore refute universalism.
While God does desire that all men be saved, that desire is not at the expense of a genuine faith response to the gospel without which no man will be saved. God's desire to save all men will not cause Him to violate human volition in the matter. Since not all men want anything to do with God and will reject the gospel, not all men will be saved.
No Mike, God "willeth" that all mankind shall be saved! I am of the opinion that His glorious will prevails over every little will of every broken creature of our race, every last one! But fear not, every last will of every creature in the heavens, the earth, and the underworld, every last one, will bow and freely confess His Lordship IN the Name of all names, the Lord Jesus Christ. And Mike, rest assured, it is not perfunctory genuflections. You do know what "in/en" means, don't you? Of course you do!
"It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him."
1 Timothy 2:4 (YLT) who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth."
No Mike, God "willeth" that all mankind shall be saved! I am of the opinion that His glorious will prevails over every little will of every broken creature of our race, every last one! But fear not, every last will of every creature in the heavens, the earth, and the underworld, every last one, will bow and freely confess His Lordship IN the Name of all names, the Lord Jesus Christ. And Mike, rest assured, it is not perfunctory genuflections. You do know what "in/en" means, don't you? Of course you do!
"It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him."
Rose, your opinion doesn't amount to a hill of beans in the face of the declarations of the Biblical writers who have shown in such passages as Matthew 25:41-46 and Revelation 20:11-15 that not all men will be saved.
And no. God does not King James 'willeth' that all men are going to be saved. Again, it is his desire that all men should be saved, but not apart from a positive volitional response to the gospel message. God doesn't want programed robots. He wants a freely given volitional response which not all men are going to give.
You know what happens in the Millennial Kingdom (the restitution of all things)? Even though Jesus Christ will be personally on the earth, ruling from the throne of David, vast multitudes of people are going to reject Him. Oh, they will give outward obedience, but when Satan is temporarily released from the pit, he will incite a rebellion against Jesus by all those who want nothing to do with Him. And they will be devoured by fire (Rev. 20:9). Then the great white throne judgment will begin, and all whose names are not in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire (Rev. 20:15).
That is what the Bible says, no matter how many times you ''no Mike'' me.
And no. God does not King James 'willeth' that all men are going to be saved. Again, it is his desire that all men should be saved,
Yes, Mike, God willeth all mankind to be saved...correction God "wills" all mankind to be saved! God wills/qelei all mankind to be saved! Will His will prevail? Yup!
1 Timothy 2:4 (YLT) "who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth."
Yes, Mike, God willeth all mankind to be saved...correction God "wills" all mankind to be saved! God wills/qelei all mankind to be saved! Will His will prevail? Yup!
1 Timothy 2:4 (YLT) "who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth."
Like the vast majority of universalists you can't objectively study the Bible. You've been shown from the Bible that not all men will be saved, and 1 Timothy 2:4 doesn't say that all men will be saved, but you simply will not accept it.
And I'm not spending the day going back and forth about it.
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