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So too did the Pharisees and Jesus put them in their place.
Hence the conservative evangelical conversation that has drifted so far from the teachings of Jesus.
That is kind of twisted since the Apostles excommunicated all liberals form the church. Christianity is not subject to liberalism (Gal.1:6-10).
Liberals like to dismiss Christian tradition by alluring to how Jesus scolded the Pharisees and other Jewish leaders for following tradition, the teachings of men. But Jesus was not speaking about Himself nor was He saying not to listen to His Apostles. He was not talking about the tradition of the church---unless, that tradition becomes redefined, defiled, and turned into nothing but a human religion (i.e., secular humanism, the worship of man over God).
Moderator. Also note that while I am here discussing issues among people in this section, I also do have another reason why I am here. I am somebody who has the influence on FB to bring to this forum millions of people. I have time to do and have been in the process of planning out the mass exodus from FB. This will be the day when millions of people delete their FB accounts for another new site that I can convince them to leave FB for. Now this site may not be suitable for International access, but I really don't know. I'm just assuming people from other countries may not feel at home here. But again, I don't know. What I am trying to say is that behaving like a progressive moderator will only slow down the progress this forum could be making. I am not lying to you when I say I have the influence to bring millions of people to this site from FB. But none of these people, not even one, will leave FB for another place run by progressives. People are on the hunt for a new social media site, one they can speak freely and not be attacked because of their Christian faith, where Christianity is not defined by atheists, where being conservative is not a banning offense. I have already lost a point for posting the most informative article on the Internet. The article was written by me and everything in it is true. No reason to loss a point here.
What I'm trying to say is that I cannot bring millions of people to this forum if I am not treated fairly. I am trusted by many people and now how to convince those I have not even met on social media. I am a master at what I do and am a man of focus. I get things done. But I am a little skeptical about being warned again when my observation would be the observation made by any other Christian who were to walk into this topic and read the posts. There is nothing odd about the things I am saying here. Christians simply do not reject Christian information. Only atheists want us Christians to be held down to atheist information. With that said, I'm finding it hard to give this forum my blessing because of the lack of justice on this forum. So I'm going to pack it up here real soon and find another site to debate on for a while and see how well the moderators behave there. If they are just they will not nit-pick on my words. If, on the other hand, they are progressives, then I'll be under attack for everything I say and probably even banned like what happened with me over at Christianforums which, by the way, got a very bad report card from me on FB!!
I've written all this because I feel I'm being singled out here and the moderator is working against the opposition here which is precisely why millions of people want to leave FB. The day is set and there is time to gather the exodus and delete our accounts. All we need is a new place to go that has similar features that FB has (the ones that count the most).
Now, will you describe what shape you think a circle is...oh, and your evidence that science once believed the Earth was flat please - or have the cajones to admit that you were wrong.
This topic is an open challenge for anyone who believes Scripture teaches flat earth. I would also recommend not overloading this discussion by posting 100 verses at a time. That is very time consuming to go through them all. For more productive discussion it would be polite to start with one or two verses. But that's my recommendation and you may post the usual 100 verses at a time and I will still answer all 100. But merely listing a verse will not be proof of interpretation. So you might want to find the most reputable support for flat earth interpretation before posting verse.
Just thought I would share what others who know biblical speech are saying about the flatether idea...
If the earth is round and flat, where are the edges? (where is its rim?) Can you give us the latitude and longitude for that … pardon, we wouldn’t need latitude and longitude if the earth were round, but you get the point.
If we are to take Israelite cosmology as literal scientific reality, where is the dome over the earth? If earth were basically one gargantuan snow globe, how is it we can launch satellites? Why doesn’t the space shuttle crash into or through the dome? Where are the “dome shards” from such impacts? (Oh, let me guess — they were taken by the government and are now in the Smithsonian’s secret cellars). How are meteors possible? What about asteroids? Are both of those space debris items just made up?
If we are to take Israelite cosmology as literal scientific reality, why don’t you take other items of “biblical science” literally? Here are some examples:
Do whole human persons really reside in the loins of males before they are conceived, much less born? That’s what a literalist reading of Hebrews 7:4-10 says (vv. 9-10 – “. . . Levi himself, who receives tithes, paid tithes through Abraham, for he was still in the loins of his ancestor when Melchizedek met him”). Sorry, but we really do know where babies come from — better, whole human persons. Whole persons are a fusion of body and soul (material and immaterial nature). Every human person is the result of a combination of genetic material from a man and woman (or a male and female donor). That union of material can only reside in a woman (in the natural world) or a petri dish in our scientific world. Artificial insemination and “test tube babies” are realities because Hebrews 7 isn’t accurate science. If it was, then the “science” of Hebrews 7 has us committing murder with every use of a condom, or every ejaculation outside the womb, deliberate or otherwise (so you “natural birth control” folks are just as guilty). This is perverse on so many levels. But I ask again, if the Bible’s flat earth teaching corresponds to literal scientific reality, why aren’t you embracing the argument of Hebrews 7? (This, and with respect to what follows, is the part where things really can get dumber, per this post’s title).
Question for Moderator: Is this not the Christianity section of this forum?
Yes. It's where we discuss issues about Christianity.
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And is not the 5th word of the Bible "created"? Did not Jesus quote from Genesis as being literal history and not myth? Sure He did. Did the Apostles believe in literal creation? Sure they did. Have not centuries of Christianity bore evidence of all this?
None of these questions matter in the least as far as the operation of this forum goes. The finest, most devout Christian I have ever known said that she didn't know HOW God created anything, and it didn't matter. All that mattered is that He did. Some people believe in a literal interpretation of some parts of the Bible, and some read those same parts as allegorical. They are all welcome to participate in this forum.
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Now what is anyone, whether myself or another Christian, supposed to think when there are these other "Christians" impugning the Scriptures? Here in the Christian section is it not reasonable for Christians to accept reputable Christian information that does not cater to the atheist worldview of evolution and secular humanism?
First, this isn't, and never has been, the Christian section. Second, I know of no atheist worldview. The atheists tell us that the one and only thing they have in common is that they do not hold a belief in any God or gods. Evolution and secular huumanism are irrelevant to the definition of atheism.
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Maybe you are right and I have crossed a line here that I should be more careful not the cross. But you got to understand that, being new here, I do not know these people well enough to decipher their intent behind their seemingly attack on Holy Scripture. One could raise the logical objection as to why should someone be a Christian if evolution were to be true? Would it not be easier to embrace evolution and live for today and be merry as though Christ is not coming? In this Christian section of the forum, what information is acceptable information? Do I find myself an apostate preacher whose being subtle about teaching humanism and link up sites from him? This is basically what I'm seeing with these Seely links. I do not know of any Christians or priests who consider Seely as a credible source of information. But, to an atheist he would be the final authority of all things Hebrew (despite all my Jewish friends who strongly disagree with him).
Again, this isn't the Christian section. These comments reinforce why we don't discuss science. I don't know who this Seely person is.
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Secondly, while I'm not challenging your concern here about my rhetoric, I have also been personally attacked and offended by those attacks. I did not report them because I am a man and can handle insults well enough to not report people. But I ask of you: Would you also warn them when they are getting vicious with me or is this forum going to be a one way street in favor of these Christians who reject the 5th word of the Bible and embrace skepticism and disbelief? Anyone can read over this topic and see that I've been attacked personally multiple times. Yet when I see someone teaching atheism and I call them an atheist I am the one being warned? And if I reported these personal attacks would you warn them? Though, to be honest, it is doubtful I will report personal attacks. I am an adult and do not wear a tinfoil hat and am not overly sensitive. If someone says to me, "You stupid poopy butt!" I just leave it at that because others who read these topics will ultimately decide which argument they are gonna believe. One thing is for certain: the side that silences the opposition is, in the long term outcome, the ultimate loser.
You have called people atheists that are not. Just because they disagree with your own particular version of Christianity doesn't automatically mean they are not Christians. There are probably members of many of the 30,000+ denominations that think you are wrong too. The City-Data Terms Of Service is pretty clear. It's OK to attack the idea or the post, but not to attack the person. I have a lot of tolerance because I learned to use Internet forums over 30 years ago when the rule of thumb was "Take care not to offend, but don't be too easily offended." You need a tough skin to particpate in Internet forums.
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Lastly, here in the Christianity section reputable Christian sources that are accepted by all or nearly all denominations should carry major weight here. These Creationist Institutions I have referenced are held in high esteem by many denominations, Catholic and Protestant, as well as the cults. So whether it comes from ICR, AIG, or CMI, it should not be ridiculed by any Christians moderating this section. I have not provided any online links that considered non-Christian. I will not defend the truth of the Gospel by using atheist information or information from liberal scholars (apostates) like Paul H.Seely who is rejected among all reputable theologians and creationists. I have friends who are well known theologians and creationists as well as translators and all of them reject Seely as a complete heretic. And all these scholarly friends of mine come from various denominations. So there is a very large percentage of faithful Christians who only accept information by other faithful Christians.
There are a number of web sites that are well know for propagating incorrect information. Among them are CARM, AiG, ICR, and Creation.org. There are probably others. I see no reason to tolerate the arguments that are certain to follow if we act like those sites are reliable. We also do not tolerate calling mainstream churches "cults." You probably would feel insulted if people referred to your church as a cult. Other people do too. Liberal Christians are welcome to participate in these forums, just as everyone else is. There is no requirement o meet your definition of a Christian to be a member here.
Moderator. Also note that while I am here discussing issues among people in this section, I also do have another reason why I am here. I am somebody who has the influence on FB to bring to this forum millions of people. I have time to do and have been in the process of planning out the mass exodus from FB. This will be the day when millions of people delete their FB accounts for another new site that I can convince them to leave FB for.
This is just a small, incidental part of City-Data. The primary purpose is to provide statistical information about cities. From that, the state and local forums grew. They directly support the primary function of this web site.
All of the general interest forums could be deleted tomorrow and the site would continue to meet it's primary purpose.
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Now this site may not be suitable for International access, but I really don't know. I'm just assuming people from other countries may not feel at home here. But again, I don't know. What I am trying to say is that behaving like a progressive moderator will only slow down the progress this forum could be making.
We have members that participate in these very forums that are all over the world. New Zealand, Australia, Spain, Germany, Wales, Canada, and Singapore are a few of the places I know people live. The forum is alive and well. I have no agenda other than seeing that the forum operates the way it is intended.
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I am not lying to you when I say I have the influence to bring millions of people to this site from FB. But none of these people, not even one, will leave FB for another place run by progressives. People are on the hunt for a new social media site, one they can speak freely and not be attacked because of their Christian faith, where Christianity is not defined by atheists, where being conservative is not a banning offense. I have already lost a point for posting the most informative article on the Internet. The article was written by me and everything in it is true. No reason to loss a point here.
I doubt seriously that anybody cares if you think you can bring millions of people to this site. There is no staff to support the level of activity that would involve. The site currently has over 2 million members, and generally has fewer than 30,000 people viewing pages concurrently. I have seen absolutely nothing to make me think City-Data wants to replace Facebook. If they did, they would at least enable direct hosting for pictures of cats.
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What I'm trying to say is that I cannot bring millions of people to this forum if I am not treated fairly. I am trusted by many people and now how to convince those I have not even met on social media. I am a master at what I do and am a man of focus. I get things done. But I am a little skeptical about being warned again when my observation would be the observation made by any other Christian who were to walk into this topic and read the posts. There is nothing odd about the things I am saying here. Christians simply do not reject Christian information. Only atheists want us Christians to be held down to atheist information. With that said, I'm finding it hard to give this forum my blessing because of the lack of justice on this forum. So I'm going to pack it up here real soon and find another site to debate on for a while and see how well the moderators behave there. If they are just they will not nit-pick on my words. If, on the other hand, they are progressives, then I'll be under attack for everything I say and probably even banned like what happened with me over at Christianforums which, by the way, got a very bad report card from me on FB!!
I've written all this because I feel I'm being singled out here and the moderator is working against the opposition here which is precisely why millions of people want to leave FB. The day is set and there is time to gather the exodus and delete our accounts. All we need is a new place to go that has similar features that FB has (the ones that count the most).
If you think you are being treated unfairly, please, please, complain to one of the Senior Moderators.
BTW, just exactly why should we be wanting your blessing?
Millions of Ploughboy clones spluttering about creationism...JUST what this forum needs!
Gosh, I'm not sure they would be happy here... a LOT of the people here actually THINK. I'd recommend looking for another site and not letting the door hit....uh, nevermind.
Just thought I would share what others who know biblical speech are saying about the flatether idea...
If the earth is round and flat, where are the edges? (where is its rim?) Can you give us the latitude and longitude for that … pardon, we wouldn’t need latitude and longitude if the earth were round, but you get the point.
If we are to take Israelite cosmology as literal scientific reality, where is the dome over the earth? If earth were basically one gargantuan snow globe, how is it we can launch satellites? Why doesn’t the space shuttle crash into or through the dome? Where are the “dome shards” from such impacts? (Oh, let me guess — they were taken by the government and are now in the Smithsonian’s secret cellars). How are meteors possible? What about asteroids? Are both of those space debris items just made up?
If we are to take Israelite cosmology as literal scientific reality, why don’t you take other items of “biblical science” literally? Here are some examples:
Do whole human persons really reside in the loins of males before they are conceived, much less born? That’s what a literalist reading of Hebrews 7:4-10 says (vv. 9-10 – “. . . Levi himself, who receives tithes, paid tithes through Abraham, for he was still in the loins of his ancestor when Melchizedek met him”). Sorry, but we really do know where babies come from — better, whole human persons. Whole persons are a fusion of body and soul (material and immaterial nature). Every human person is the result of a combination of genetic material from a man and woman (or a male and female donor). That union of material can only reside in a woman (in the natural world) or a petri dish in our scientific world. Artificial insemination and “test tube babies” are realities because Hebrews 7 isn’t accurate science. If it was, then the “science” of Hebrews 7 has us committing murder with every use of a condom, or every ejaculation outside the womb, deliberate or otherwise (so you “natural birth control” folks are just as guilty). This is perverse on so many levels. But I ask again, if the Bible’s flat earth teaching corresponds to literal scientific reality, why aren’t you embracing the argument of Hebrews 7? (This, and with respect to what follows, is the part where things really can get dumber, per this post’s title).
I have a friend who is a professional creationist. He tends to deal more with the scientific arguments of today then he dells with Biblical defense. This is not to say he cannot defend Scripture by no means. Though I have decided to defend just Scripture. I personally do not care if people think the earth is flat. If they think the earth is flat then have at it. My concern is this scam on the Bible and how it leads to nothing but mass apostasy and extreme antisemitism.
The firmament is not meant to mean solid. Even Augustine who has been misrepresented here mentions about a place beyond the limits of air; that is, the limits of our atmosphere. I do not believe these so-called scholars who have rejected the word of God are even truly saved. As an Anglican (church of England), the church has been divided in many different groups. Moderator cut: We aren't accusing Christian churches of equivalence to Satanic priests (whatever that is). Fortunately for me I'm ACC, the Anglican Continuum, still using the 1928 BCP. I was thinking about becoming a Roman Catholic but they do not know the 5th word. If a church don't understand the 5th word of Gen.1:1 the how will they understand John 1:1? So this liberal Christian movement, being extremely far left and antisemitic, is not orthodox and has no root.
Last edited by mensaguy; 06-15-2018 at 04:16 PM..
Reason: Equaling churches to Satanism
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