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We have a dear friend from many moons ago whose dear wife is of the opinion God is justice. Abba is indeed just, but He IS love from which all His attributes flow in spontaneous vibrations of grandeur.
Warden: thank you for posting a wonderful song and a glorious message!
You don’t ignore apostacy and false doctrine. It basically portrays A false god. If I were to treat you like a cat and gave you cat food and squirted you when you sat on the couch, how would you feel? Treating God in a similar fashion by protraying Him differently rather than His character described in the Scriptures is wrong. It is not something you simply ignore.
and if it be of God, you sumtingy are not able to overthrow it, unless perhaps also you sumtingy be found fighting against God.' Acts 5:39
I could sit here and discuss this for the thousandth time - why? We disagree - whoop-de-do. You or I have nothing to do with the outcome. Christianity does not require me to be 100% correct on everything. It does not require you to be 100% correct on everything. It requires God to be correct in 100% of everything. It requires our faith in Him regardless of how He chooses to act.
It gets to a point where we look no different than the rest of the world with the endless squabbling. That's not what God wants from His children.
I gotta say, I've had a small glimmer of hope with the original post on this thread. Amen! to 'we don't control the outcome'.
And the only thing I'd change above is that 'God is required to BE one hundred percent of everything!' It's not about correctness - He isn't judging us.
On the matter of Christianity 'having requirements'...
Honestly, I have difficulty calling myself a Christian these days, because I see myself more as a brother of Christ, not as a follower of him. I mean who the hell follows their own brother through life - oh yea, there's respect and love that is stronger than death, but 'following' is a bit too trite for me. 'Dwelling with' or 'knowing' - Yes!, but "Do as I say" or any hint of 'older brother' - No!
Jesus does not consider himself as 'over us' - I am absolutely convinced of that, so I don't see how he has 'requirements'. The only thing that has requirements is a rules based system - a religion.
On the other hand, I have a different concept of Father, now I have done the unChristian thing of taking the 'God' badge off Jesus - who didn't consider equality with the Former something to be grasped.
Oh, the Father, He is doing a new thing, right now.
My family (me, my wife and our 4 young children) have just started going to a Baptist church. Like I say, I'm not a Baptist, and struggle with the concept of Christian. The Pastor left not long after we started going - not because of us - he was just moving on because he was. With our history of not fitting in at churches, I'd be more than happy not to go at all, but it seems Father wants us there, and that He's going to move - stir the waters, I'm pretty sure and it has started. I wouldn't give a toss about going otherwise. I want to see His glory, and Him touch people's lives. Am not interested in church as a social club - that's a waste of time and effort - its purpose is a means of glorifying God and moving people closer to Him. And the fact that the pastor has moved on means there's no platform for any individual building a ministry just at the moment - it's being run by the members - of which I'm not one and hopefully never going to be one - what has voting got to do with an Holy Spirit led group of people (?) But that very collective ownership is allowing the Holy Spirit to move because there is no control or man's agenda - it's a beautiful thing.
Last edited by Age-enduring; 06-20-2018 at 03:35 PM..
The great Apostle, Saint Paul, taught the "outcome" to Timothy & told him what to do with it:
9 This is a trustworthy saying, worthy of full acceptance.
10 To this end we labor and strive, because we have set our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.
11 Command and teach these things
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
You or I have nothing to do with the outcome.
Nothing to do with the outcome? Do you think we are robots or puppets on a string?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
Christianity does not require me to be 100% correct on everything. It does not require you to be 100% correct on everything. It requires God to be correct in 100% of everything. It requires our faith in Him regardless of how He chooses to act.
It gets to a point where we look no different than the rest of the world with the endless squabbling. That's not what God wants from His children.
If anyone is "squabbling" are they sinning? Is that what you're saying? Then perhaps they should present their views in debating universalism graciously & in love as Scripture says. That would be a good witness to any unbelievers here.
Also, isn't there always going to be debates between Christians who think other groups calling themselves Christians (e.g. JWs, Mormons) are not Christians? Some Christians here are saying if you believe the Bible teaches universalism, you are not a Christian.
The great Apostle, Saint Paul, taught the "outcome" to Timothy & told him what to do with it:
9 This is a trustworthy saying, worthy of full acceptance.
10 To this end we labor and strive, because we have set our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.
11 Command and teach these things
Nothing to do with the outcome? Do you think we are robots or puppets on a string?
If anyone is "squabbling" are they sinning? Is that what you're saying? Then perhaps they should present their views in debating universalism graciously & in love as Scripture says. That would be a good witness to any unbelievers here.
Also, isn't there always going to be debates between Christians who think other groups calling themselves Christians (e.g. JWs, Mormons) are not Christians? Some Christians here are saying if you believe the Bible teaches universalism, you are not a Christian.
You only control yourself - and that's subject to God's intervention at any time. See Nebuchchadnezzar...
You have no control over what Christ does. And being that He mentions eternal punishment, the second death, hell, etc. - the claim that all are saved is not on solid ground. I am simply saying why ruin unity over this with which we have no control.
If God chooses to save everyone - great. If God chooses to send some to be punished eternally - great. Either way - the greatness of God is unaffected. Either way, our job is to preach Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, and make disciples.
Preaching an outcome is not part of the job description. It is about the person of Christ.
The Op makes a good pount. Jesus told his disciples when he snt them to different towns to preach about the kingdom. If they wiil not receive you, shake the dust off your feet and go on to the next town. Ie dont waste time if they will not listen. Remember the great commission. If everyone was going to heaven, then there's no point to the great commission. If universalism was true, then why did Peter say on Pentecost, save yourselves from this corrupt generation. Universalism is a doctrine of the Devil.
You only control yourself - and that's subject to God's intervention at any time. See Nebuchchadnezzar...
You have no control over what Christ does. And being that He mentions eternal punishment, the second death, hell, etc. - the claim that all are saved is not on solid ground. I am simply saying why ruin unity over this with which we have no control.
If God chooses to save everyone - great. If God chooses to send some to be punished eternally - great. Either way - the greatness of God is unaffected. Either way, our job is to preach Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, and make disciples.
Preaching an outcome is not part of the job description. It is about the person of Christ.
My friend: the broken wrecks of this world have little control over themselves being lost to a world from which all have fallen. Aionios life, and aionios punishment of the goat nations is a fact! Can you declare what the Master has laid down as the basis for aionios punishment from the context of His words in Matt. 25?
We do not have any control over what He does, for which I for one am very grateful. He has made it abundantly clear (at least to Rose) that all death 1st, second, third or fourth, is swallowed up in victory. In the final outcome of all Abba's working of love and grace, the end must must be where it began!
"From Him the all comes, through Him the all exists, and in Him the all ends..."
It’s disturbing that so many people see blind obedience and infinite punishment as some kind of virtue. It’s particularly remarkable in a place like America where we brag about how free we are.
If the Christian God were real, he’d be worse than any tyrant in history. And he torturers people with infinite punishment in hell. Hitler, horrible as he was, caused only a finite amount of suffering.
I think “liberal” Christianity is lipstick on a pig, but at least they try to emphasize the positive aspects of the religion rather than the negative ones.
If God chooses to save everyone - great. If God chooses to send some to be punished eternally - great. Either way - the greatness of God is unaffected.
I bow my knee and heart to the Will of all wills! His Plan is perfect and without flaw. In the end of it all, this Plan of His brings satisfaction to His great being. The most intimate of terms of our Father is "Abba" & He is the Father of all fathers. I do not know if you are a father, but there is no earthly father of calibre that I know, who would not give his life for any one of his children! You can use the word "great", but there is nothing great about a Father like Abba, who loses nearly everything, or anything for that matter. He gathers up morsels of bread and fish "that nothing be lost". The souls & spirits for whom He made propitiation He has given His life for. Every last one of the hilasmos of the holos will come home, some sooner, some later, but home they will come.
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