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Ecclesiastes 12:7 - "Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it."
Luke 23:46 - "And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, 'Father, into Your hands I commend My spirit. And having said this, He breathed His last."
However, 1 Peter 3:18-19 says - "For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison."
Are the 1 Peter verses referring to the Messiah's preaching to the spirits in prison during the time from His death to His resurrection? Or are they referring to a different time? And if it is referring to the former, when do the Ecclesiastes and Luke passages occur?
Ecclesiastes 12:7 - "Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it."
Luke 23:46 - "And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, 'Father, into Your hands I commend My spirit. And having said this, He breathed His last."
However, 1 Peter 3:18-19 says - "For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison."
Are the 1 Peter verses referring to the Messiah's preaching to the spirits in prison during the time from His death to His resurrection? Or are they referring to a different time? And if it is referring to the former, when do the Ecclesiastes and Luke passages occur?
There are two different events here. The first is that when Jesus died His soul and spirit immediately went to paradise (Luke 23:43) which at that time apparently was a compartment of hades. However, since then, paradise is now located in the third heaven as per 2 Corinthians 12:2-4.
The second event, the one that 1 Peter 3:18-19 refers to is when, and this was perhaps after He had been resurrected, Jesus went to Tartarus which is mentioned in 2 Peter 2:4. Most English translations say 'hell', but the Greek says 'Tartarus.'
2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into Tartarus and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;
In Greek mythology Tartarus was the lowest part of Hades and was where the Titans were imprisoned. However, the reality is that Tartarus is where the angels who sinned in Genesis 6:2-4 have been confined. It seems that after He was crucified, and perhaps it was after He was resurrected, Jesus went to Tartarus and announced His victory to the imprisoned angels and informed them that their plan to pollute the human blood line by creating a hybrid half human/half angelic race in order to prevent the Messiah from coming into the world as a true human in order to die for the sins of true humanity, had failed.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 - "Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it."
Luke 23:46 - "And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, 'Father, into Your hands I commend My spirit. And having said this, He breathed His last."
...
Yet another thing in the Bible that contradicts.
Jesus’ spirit did not return to God when he died, according to the author of the book of John.
“ Jesus *said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father;”
Jesus’ spirit did not return to God when he died, according to the author of the book of John.
“ Jesus *said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father;”
Actually not. You're conflating two different things. When Jesus spoke to Mary that was after He had been bodily resurrected. He had not yet bodily ascended to the Father after His resurrection. But that was on the third day after He had been crucified. Prior to His resurrection Jesus' soul and spirit had gone to paradise.
06-22-2018, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstrats
Ecclesiastes 12:7 - "Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it."
Luke 23:46 - "And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, 'Father, into Your hands I commend My spirit. And having said this, He breathed His last."
However, 1 Peter 3:18-19 says - "For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison."
Are the 1 Peter verses referring to the Messiah's preaching to the spirits in prison during the time from His death to His resurrection? Or are they referring to a different time? And if it is referring to the former, when do the Ecclesiastes and Luke passages occur?
Because Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, to bring you to God, by being put to death in the flesh but by being made alive in the spirit. In it he went and preached to the spirits in prison, after they were disobedient long ago when God patiently waited in the days of Noah as an ark was being constructed.
It seems clear to me that it is during the time of Noah that the Spirit preached to the generation that was disobedient when they were alive but at the time of I Peter were dead in prison.
Notice that it says when the preaching took place, after they were disobedient, and by what means, in the Spirit. This is one long sentence in Greek. Here are some footnotes from the NET Bible that help explain this:
Quote:
Grk “in which.” “The antecedent of the RP [relative pronoun] is by no means certain. Some take it to refer to πνεύματι immediately preceding, the meaning of which might be either the Holy Spirit or the spiritual state. Others see the phrase as causal (‘for which reason,’ ‘because of this’), referring back to the entire clause, while still other scholars read the phrase as temporal (if so, it could be with or without an antecedent: ‘on which occasion’ or ‘meanwhile’). None of these options is excluded by syntax. It may be significant, however, that every other time ἐν ᾧ is used in 1 Peter it bears an adverbial/conjunctive force (cf. 1:6; 2:12; 3:16 [here, temporal]; 4:4).” Also, because of the length and complexity of the Greek sentence, a new sentence was started here in the translation.
And preached to the spirits in prison. The meaning of this preaching and the spirits to whom he preached are much debated. It is commonly understood to be: (1) Christ’s announcement of his victory over evil to the fallen angels who await judgment for their role in leading the Noahic generation into sin; this proclamation occurred sometime between Christ’s death and ascension; or (2) Christ’s preaching of repentance through Noah to the unrighteous humans, now dead and confined in hell, who lived in the days of Noah. The latter is preferred because of the temporal indications in v. 20a and the wider argument of the book. These verses encourage Christians to stand for righteousness and try to influence their contemporaries for the gospel in spite of the suffering that may come to them. All who identify with them and their Savior will be saved from the coming judgment, just as in Noah’s day.
This reflects a Greek participle, literally “having been disobedient formerly,” that refers to the “spirits” in v. 19. Many translations take this as adjectival describing the spirits (“who had once been disobedient”; cf. NASB, NIV, NKJV, NLT, NRSV, TEV), but the grammatical construction strongly favors an adverbial interpretation describing the time of the preaching, as reflected above.
This also seems to jive with II Peter 2:4-5
For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but threw them into hell and locked them up in chains in utter darkness, to be kept until the judgment, and if he did not spare the ancient world, but did protect Noah, a herald of righteousness, along with seven others, when God brought a flood on an ungodly world...
It seems that the Spirit of Christ was in Noah preaching repentance to hat disobedient generation just like those in Peters time awaiting the return of Christ. All of which is a lesson and encouragement to endure.
Maybe that helps! But hey that's just my atheist opinion!
Because Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, to bring you to God, by being put to death in the flesh but by being made alive in the spirit. In it he went and preached to the spirits in prison, after they were disobedient long ago when God patiently waited in the days of Noah as an ark was being constructed.
It seems clear to me that it is during the time of Noah that the Spirit preached to the generation that was disobedient when they were alive but at the time of I Peter were dead in prison.
Notice that it says when the preaching took place, after they were disobedient, and by what means, in the Spirit. This is one long sentence in Greek. Here are some footnotes from the NET Bible that help explain this:
This also seems to jive with II Peter 2:4-5
[i]For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but threw them into hell and locked them up in chains in utter darkness, to be kept until the judgment, and if he did not spare the ancient world, but did protect Noah, a herald of righteousness, along with seven others, when God brought a flood on an ungodly world...
It seems that the Spirit of Christ was in Noah preaching repentance to hat disobedient generationjust like those in Peters time awaiting the return of Christ. All of which is a lesson and encouragement to endure.
Maybe that helps!
The flood of Noah is about to take place on Shemini atzeret, the second rain promised. This rain is not water, it is a flood of spirit that looks back to the flood of Noah where nobody had ever seen it rain before, and neither has anyone ever seen the rain of what is coming to rain.
The first Pentecost came and it killed 3000, but when the second Pentecost came, it saved 3000.
The first Shemini Atzeret came in the days of Noah, and now we are looking at the second flood of Noah.
Because Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, to bring you to God, by being put to death in the flesh but by being made alive in the spirit. In it he went and preached to the spirits in prison, after they were disobedient long ago when God patiently waited in the days of Noah as an ark was being constructed.
It seems clear to me that it is during the time of Noah that the Spirit preached to the generation that was disobedient when they were alive but at the time of I Peter were dead in prison.
Notice that it says when the preaching took place, after they were disobedient, and by what means, in the Spirit. This is one long sentence in Greek. Here are some footnotes from the NET Bible that help explain this:
This also seems to jive with II Peter 2:4-5
For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but threw them into hell and locked them up in chains in utter darkness, to be kept until the judgment, and if he did not spare the ancient world, but did protect Noah, a herald of righteousness, along with seven others, when God brought a flood on an ungodly world...
It seems that the Spirit of Christ was in Noah preaching repentance to hat disobedient generation just like those in Peters time awaiting the return of Christ. All of which is a lesson and encouragement to endure.
Maybe that helps! But hey that's just my atheist opinion!
It was a really good post, a post that makes people think from a different view, thanks.
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Where did Jesus’ spirit go when he died?
