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I tried to get my mother to understand that this was a parable. She could not believe it was a parable because her church taught her it was proof of eternal separation from God in literal fire. She never had much peace or joy before she died .... she always said she hoped she would make it to heaven. Even at her funeral, her pastor said she had a "chance" of going to heaven, but that only God knows. Sad It is going to be very interesting to leave this world :-)
Fear not Rainmusic, you will see you mother again. There is 1 chapter that that defies the lies of men, Psalm 136 that says God's mercy endures forever.
No matter what scripture is presented, if it is not inline with this one then their beliefs are wrong, the bible does not contradict itself, if it seems that it does, then adjust your thinking.
That will be a great hope for you that you will see your mother again.
Jesus said many things that weren't parables and again he never used real names when giving a parable. So, you're not rightly dividing the Scriptures. Just because you don't like the concept of hell doesn't do away with it.
You are so quick to dismiss scripture, Mark 4:34 But without a parable He did not speak to them. And when they were alone, He explained all things to His disciples.
Jesus did not speak parables to his disciples. but everyone else he did, think otherwise and you might as well cut that scripture out.
You talk about rightly dividing, but the last part of that is the word of truth. If you believe in hell, then you do not have the truth, therefore you can not rightly divide anything.
You believe in hell, then you truly do not know God. God is not about eternal torment. That is the thinking of some severely sick men backed by the devil. If you think I go against God by saying that, then I will take any punishment times a billion if you are right.
But because I can guarantee you are not right, it is easy. Psalm 136 God's mercy endures forever. It says that 26 times in that chapter.
If you believe in hell, then you sir are calling God a liar, that his mercy does not endure forever.
Tell me one way you can get around those 26 scriptures! if it is not in line with those scriptures then something is wrong, translation, understanding. It's time to stop and really think, what is the condition of your heart? are you able to be taught by God's word? Or will you fall into the same lump of other unbelievers?
I tried to get my mother to understand that this was a parable. She could not believe it was a parable because her church taught her it was proof of eternal separation from God in literal fire. She never had much peace or joy before she died .... she always said she hoped she would make it to heaven. Even at her funeral, her pastor said she had a "chance" of going to heaven, but that only God knows. Sad It is going to be very interesting to leave this world :-)
That is so sad. One can only imagine the fear she must've felt before passing.
Don't worry about what the pastor said (what an ignorant thing for him to say, especially at a funeral) most clergy just make it up as they see fit.
When I worked in the funeral industry I conducted two funerals at the same church on the same day.
Same church but a different priest presiding. The same mourners attended both funerals.
In the morning service just before internment, as the priest waved the thurible over the coffin, he said the smoke represented the rising up off the deceased's spirit upon Christs return. (Meaning that he'd be hiding in the coffin until then)
Then in the afternoons service, the other priest from the same church, said that the smoke represented the deceased's spirit rising up NOW to await in Heaven until judgement.
That's a huge difference to my mind yet not one of the mourners even raised an eyebrow. It's as if none of them were even listening. The priest could've said that the deceased's spirit would hang around the bar at DisneyWorld & I doubt anyone would've noticed.
You will see your mother again. We are eternal beings. When you think of her send her your love, not your grief.
It would be really odd for Jesus to use a parable for hell which didn't really exist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Yes, the parables always revolved around topics everyone was familiar with. If it is a parable, then the listeners were familiar with the the place Lazarus was taken to after he died.
Gehenna was where some of the kings of Judah sacrificed their children by fire.
But it never came to Gods mind to do that, so who is it that built this doctrine?
If you think about it, if is a free gift from God in which if one confesses with their mouth and believe in their heart that Jesus is Lord, and they turn from their sins, they will be saved, according to Romans 10:9-11, why cant them loosing Salvation also be an option if they choose to openly denounce their faith and God and they no longer feel the need to follow God and die unrepentant in their sins.
Think how many atheists, even on City-Data, states how they used to be devout Christians, until they opened their eyes and either saw the bible as nonsense or the idea of a God itself to be false as well with all that goes on in the world and they denounce their faith and do as they please and many die in that state. Would we say, that atheist is going to Heaven because they spouted a few words when they were 13yrs old in church, despite his future free will choice as an adult to walk away from God.
Nah... once saved always saved... too bad atheists and evolutionists and agnostics, if you received the Lord, the Lord saved you whether you like it or not. If only once in your life you whole heartedly cried out to the Lord, then He saved for you...thats why it is called ETERNAL SALVATION etc.... The Lord never lsot a sheep...deal with it.
Of course if these atheists and evolutionists and agnostics, were just part of a church system etc etc... then of course they can deny the Lord to their deathbed as their choice. As it is all by choice.
Interestingly, the MARK of the Beast choice, when faced with taking it or being killed, does seem to indicate the half hearts or make believers will choose temporal life rather than death, and accept the death knell of the MARK..
Interesting... and very serious...as man worships his present life way way toooo much....
I reckon I am going to hell as a Buddhist/agnostic. Jews will all be in hell, too, and just about everyone else who doesn't subscribe to Evangelical Christianity. I know I won't be alone there.
Imagine: Jesus - the son of the Christian god- sadistically punishes everyone who is 12 and up for not saying some sinner's prayer; and then he punishes you for all of eternity - not just a few years in hellish prison. Wow! Sounds like a god who is full of love and logic.
The hard, cold truth is that most people are just as convinced of your religion as you are of yours.
^ But I say what I am saying in peace - I really mean that. I do wish you true happiness.
Believe what you need to believe. Worry about your own beliefs - not the beliefs of others. Religious arrogance has led to countless religious wars and the slaughtering of millions upon millions of people.
You now the old "My religion is better than yours!" Just be loving and kind and much less religiously arrogant. It will serve you well in the end. Emulate the Sacred Heart of Jesus and you will be on a better path.
I reckon I am going to hell as a Buddhist/agnostic. Jews will all be in hell, too, and just about everyone else who doesn't subscribe to Evangelical Christianity. I know I won't be alone there.
Imagine: Jesus - the son of the Christian god- sadistically punishes everyone who is 12 and up for not saying some sinner's prayer; and then he punishes you for all of eternity - not just a few years in hellish prison. Wow! Sounds like a god who is full of love and logic.
The hard, cold truth is that most people are just as convinced of your religion as you are of yours.
^ But I say what I am saying in peace - I really mean that. I do wish you true happiness.
Believe what you need to believe. Worry about your own beliefs - not the beliefs of others. Religious arrogance has led to countless religious wars and the slaughtering of millions upon millions of people.
You now the old "My religion is better than yours!" Just be loving and kind and much less religiously arrogant. It will serve you well in the end. Emulate the Sacred Heart of Jesus and you will be on a better path.
No hard feelings! Peace!
So, when you jump off the roof you are the type of guy that blames gravity for your broken legs?
God is giving you a choice. YOU decide where your eternal soul resides.
If you think about it, if is a free gift from God in which if one confesses with their mouth and believe in their heart that Jesus is Lord, and they turn from their sins, they will be saved, according to Romans 10:9-11, why cant them loosing Salvation also be an option if they choose to openly denounce their faith and God and they no longer feel the need to follow God and die unrepentant in their sins.
Think how many atheists, even on City-Data, states how they used to be devout Christians, until they opened their eyes and either saw the bible as nonsense or the idea of a God itself to be false as well with all that goes on in the world and they denounce their faith and do as they please and many die in that state. Would we say, that atheist is going to Heaven because they spouted a few words when they were 13yrs old in church, despite his future free will choice as an adult to walk away from God.
No one wants to accept they can not be saved or lose it just because they do not obey God just like Adam didn't.
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It is going to be very interesting to leave this world :-) 
