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Old 08-30-2018, 08:37 PM
 
17,570 posts, read 10,625,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo58 View Post
Pope Francis' teaching against the death penalty are really nothing new. The Catholic Catechism already taught that the death penalty was only admissible when there is no other way to protect the public. Francis is just reiterating that such circumstances are nonexistent in today's society:

2267 The traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude, presupposing full ascertainment of the identity and responsibility of the offender, recourse to the death penalty, when this is the only practicable way to defend the lives of human beings effectively against the aggressor.
"If, instead, bloodless means are sufficient to defend against the aggressor and to protect the safety of persons, public authority should limit itself to such means, because they better correspond to the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.
"Today, in fact, given the means at the State's disposal to effectively repress crime by rendering inoffensive the one who has committed it, without depriving him definitively of the possibility of redeeming himself, cases of absolute necessity for suppression of the offender 'today ... are very rare, if not practically non-existent.'[John Paul II, Evangelium vitae 56.]

Many people want to argue that a heinous criminal "deserves" death. They completely miss the point of both Church teaching and of our criminal justice system. The point is not to give offenders "what they deserve". Only God can do that. The point is to protect the public by deterrence and incarceration.
KJV Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Obviously the Pope has not read the Bible.
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Old 08-30-2018, 08:49 PM
Status: "Smacking fundies." (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
25,813 posts, read 13,417,575 times
Reputation: 11675
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
KJV Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Obviously the Pope has not read the Bible.

Or he has a brain and knows how to parse the wheat from the chaff. Unlike those old dolts in NY.
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Old 08-30-2018, 09:09 PM
 
8,671 posts, read 3,105,095 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
KJV Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Obviously the Pope has not read the Bible.
Key word" ordained"

Test the spirits..
The highest governing Authority is the will of the Lord with pure instruction upon the hearts of kings and priest that seek Him
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Old 08-30-2018, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,818 posts, read 4,970,941 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomulusXXV View Post
Chapter and verse where He did not ...? That should confuse 'em . . .
LOL, that is about how it is too. Some dude came in my office one day talking about how Peter and all the disciples BBQed ribs and made some sausage to have a pork party since they were allowed to eat it, and this guy honestly believed this story was in the book of Acts........That they started eating pork, they never ate pork, they never stopped keeping the laws....
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Old 08-30-2018, 09:46 PM
 
8,671 posts, read 3,105,095 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
LOL, that is about how it is too. Some dude came in my office one day talking about how Peter and all the disciples BBQed ribs and made some sausage to have a pork party since they were allowed to eat it, and this guy honestly believed this story was in the book of Acts........That they started eating pork, they never ate pork, they never stopped keeping the laws....
yup,
Bitter herbs, ok.
Bitter meat, no
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Old 08-30-2018, 09:54 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,665 posts, read 74,620,384 times
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That is odd.considering the history of knights templar and the church not to mention the Dominican order devoted exclusively to torture
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Old 08-30-2018, 10:49 PM
 
8,671 posts, read 3,105,095 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
That is odd.considering the history of knights templar and the church not to mention the Dominican order devoted exclusively to torture
Nah
They lied about and created a martyr system in order to in place fear where it was never intended.
Those kinds of people will be dealt with shortly.
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Old 08-30-2018, 11:02 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,818 posts, read 4,970,941 times
Reputation: 1509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
That is odd.considering the history of knights templar and the church not to mention the Dominican order devoted exclusively to torture
Wait, What?


Is torture wrong? Cause I am thinking somebody should have said that from the beginning, is that wrong? Now that we got the rules, it wont happen again.
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Old 09-05-2018, 02:57 PM
 
1,514 posts, read 1,000,130 times
Reputation: 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
I'm aware of those stipulations. I'm curious if a Catholic considers them to have been met in this instance.
The Pope (thankfully) has not broken out the "infallibility option" regarding any of his statements (death penalty, divorce, sacraments etc). Thus, his policies are not doctrine. Rather, they are viewed as "authoratative guidance"- but just guidance.

As a side note, the last use of the infallibility concept was in 1950 when a Pope declared the assumption of the Virgin Mary to be doctrinal fact. Previously, it was just a traditional belief among Catholics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post
So the Pope is "infallible" when the Pope declares it to be so.
Yes, that is correct. There is sort of a catch though.....

An infallible papal statement cannot directly contradict scripture or the magestarium (sp) as these are also considered to be infallible when viewed as a collective whole. So, the Pope has the infallible option, but it is limited- at least somewhat.

Last edited by Cryptic; 09-05-2018 at 03:06 PM..
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