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Old 08-05-2018, 12:47 PM
 
Location: USA
15,906 posts, read 8,177,909 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
And, the here and now continues on 'The Other Side". Wherever we go there we are....


Emily Dickinson:


Who has not found the Heaven--below--
Will fail it above--
Perhaps there is no “here” on the other side but only “now”, which might make “hell” (disharmony) an impossibility.

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Old 08-05-2018, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
15,415 posts, read 12,154,360 times
Reputation: 16636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Perhaps there is no “here” on the other side but only “now”,
which might make “hell” (disharmony) an impossibility.
Well, nice thought....all I can say is the many things I have read (that surprisingly are all basically the same...and ring true), since the '70s I have been into the Afterlife, (maybe cuz my mom
'died' having a kidney removed and has a story, who knows...)...it is very real 'there', haha...
so there is a 'there and a now'...more real than here.

Oh, the accounts...and my couple of glimpses....funny...MY first thought once going 'thru the veil'...
was, lol ...
"Well this is like Toronto!"....

Oh the funny things the mind comes up with spontaneously ...it is so crisp and clean...hard to explain the 'crisp, aliveness, the brightness...', different than our sunshine...as many have said...
'More real than here, so beautiful...".
Anyhoo...too weird to talk about it in this group.
This is just between you and me, right?
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Old 08-05-2018, 02:01 PM
 
177 posts, read 37,965 times
Reputation: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monastic555 View Post
According to the Bible, all Non-christians will be sent to Eternal Torture in Fire. But what if a Non- christian has been law-abiding and charitable all his life. Will he be tortured just as much in the fire as Evil-doers?


I'm sure that everybody will agree that murder is the most evil deed of all. So don't you feel that murderers should receive far greater punishment in Hell than others?

The point is that there are crimes and atrocities that are much more evil and heinous than others. Let's say, what if someone was just a pathological Liar, will his punishment in Hell be just as agonizing as all other offenses? Many Christians believe so.

And what about prostitutes and Gamblers and husbands who cheat on their wives? Will they receive just as much punishment, just as much torture in Hell as other offenses? Many Christians believe so.

It's different here on Earth where evildoers receive punishment in different degrees according to the individual severity of their crimes. Why is it reversed in Hell?
There will, of course, be plenty of repentant and forgiven murderers in heaven too. Admittance to either heaven or hell doesn't depend on how bad or how good someone was during life. The sole criterion is whether the individual was or wasn't repentant and forgiven. There is the biblical notion of crowns in heaven for superstar believers, but I'm not aware of any corresponding idea of degrees of suffering in hell.

Although you can certainly take the fire image literally, I think it's a mistake to try to picture the fate of the unsaved. They will be separated from God, which will be bad enough. If we're troubled by conventional ideas about hell, we simply have to trust that the unpleasant fate of the unsaved will still be consistent with the just and loving nature of the God in whom we believe.

It's a cliché but true: People send themselves to hell. Hell isn't God's punishment for evil deeds. It's the fate of those who willfully reject God's grace and offer of eternal life. To me it doesn't make sense to speak of degrees of suffering in hell. All the unsaved will suffer their fate for the same reason: they willfully rejected God's grace.
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Old 08-05-2018, 04:21 PM
 
2,316 posts, read 628,806 times
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Just as there are differing rewards for those entering heaven so there will be different levels of punishment in hell. Judgment has a purpose. Believers receive ONLY rewards, expected to be different areas of authority while ruling WITH Christ, although little is said about this. Hell is what it is, eternal torment and separation from God which no one can comprehend because none of us has ever been totally isolated from God so far............you don't want to go there......
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Old 08-05-2018, 04:38 PM
 
Location: New England
32,238 posts, read 21,123,632 times
Reputation: 2280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monastic555 View Post
According to the Bible, all Non-christians will be sent to Eternal Torture in Fire. But what if a Non- christian has been law-abiding and charitable all his life. Will he be tortured just as much in the fire as Evil-doers?


I'm sure that everybody will agree that murder is the most evil deed of all. So don't you feel that murderers should receive far greater punishment in Hell than others?

The point is that there are crimes and atrocities that are much more evil and heinous than others. Let's say, what if someone was just a pathological Liar, will his punishment in Hell be just as agonizing as all other offenses? Many Christians believe so.

And what about prostitutes and Gamblers and husbands who cheat on their wives? Will they receive just as much punishment, just as much torture in Hell as other offenses? Many Christians believe so.

It's different here on Earth where evildoers receive punishment in different degrees according to the individual severity of their crimes. Why is it reversed in Hell?
Of cause and the hell you choose( 99% choose obliviously) determines it. Make no mistake, no matter how much bible fundamentalists tell you they are free from hell, there is no way on God's green earth, believing what they do about hell they are free from the fear of it. It doesn't matter what they believe whether it OSAS or whatever, they fear it, they fear it more than those "they"(not God) condemn to it . The bible the bible the bible says (an emoji i never use,)
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Old 08-05-2018, 05:40 PM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,093 posts, read 23,926,456 times
Reputation: 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monastic555 View Post
According to the Bible, all Non-christians will be sent to Eternal Torture in Fire. But what if a Non- christian has been law-abiding and charitable all his life. Will he be tortured just as much in the fire as Evil-doers?


I'm sure that everybody will agree that murder is the most evil deed of all. So don't you feel that murderers should receive far greater punishment in Hell than others?

The point is that there are crimes and atrocities that are much more evil and heinous than others. Let's say, what if someone was just a pathological Liar, will his punishment in Hell be just as agonizing as all other offenses? Many Christians believe so.

And what about prostitutes and Gamblers and husbands who cheat on their wives? Will they receive just as much punishment, just as much torture in Hell as other offenses? Many Christians believe so.

It's different here on Earth where evildoers receive punishment in different degrees according to the individual severity of their crimes. Why is it reversed in Hell?
seems if there are differing degrees of heaven, why would there also be levels in a man made hell?
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Old 08-05-2018, 05:44 PM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,093 posts, read 23,926,456 times
Reputation: 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Perhaps there is no “here” on the other side but only “now”, which might make “hell” (disharmony) an impossibility.


“There is no there there.”


How do you diminish a claim as insubstantial or meritless these days? One popular turn of phrase—now bordering on a cliché—borrows from the writer Gertrude Stein.
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Old 08-05-2018, 06:44 PM
 
603 posts, read 356,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose2Luv View Post
Achilles6129 said:

"In this thread I will suggest that the doctrine of eternal torture in hell is a real doctrine and is actually taught in the Bible. I will also suggest that it is totally just and that those that go away into eternal torture are actually getting what they deserve."

I suggest you find a new father,

QUICKLY! VERY QUICKLY!

Run:do not walk!

There is no such thing as eternal punishment or damnation! In fact only KJV uses the word "damnation".

The words endless torment (adialeipton timorion), eternal imprisonment (aidios eirgmos) and eternal punishment (aidios kalasin) do not appear anywhere in the Greek New Testament, in conjunction.

Neither, will you find the term aidios timorion or eternal torment.

Therefore, whoever says that there is an eternal (aidios) time set for punishment (kalasin) or torment beyond this life is sadly mistaken.

It's a limited duration of aionion(αἰώνιον - a period of time as in an age) kalasin (Κόλασιν - chastisement or correction) which is in view; but the day and hour that it begins and ends is unpredictable. If it were eternal, then the word Aidios would have been used. But not even Jesus used the word for eternal in conjunction with any kind of punishment or life for that matter.

There are only two places in the New Testament where the word Aidios is used correctly, and they define His Eternal power and divine nature.

Are our broadest hopes broad enough? Shall there be a nook or abyss, in all the universe of God, finally unlightened by the Cross? Shall there be a sin, or sorrow, or pain unhealed? Is the very universe, is creation in all its extent, a field wide enough for the Son of God?
Thank you, Rose, for your clarification. Prior to your post, I had not known about the original Greek definitions. Evidently many Christians have been gullibly misguided into the false belief of an eternal hell.
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Old 08-05-2018, 09:35 PM
 
20,421 posts, read 9,840,546 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
Yes, I do believe there are degrees to hell because God's judgement is based on peoples' deeds; everyone who goes there will receive their portion based on their works in this life. But, make no mistake about it, everyone who goes there is an evildoer. The biggest crime of all is rejecting Jesus.
Who said that it's a crime? Or, is that something you've been brainwashed to believe?
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Old 08-05-2018, 09:41 PM
 
2,075 posts, read 1,465,409 times
Reputation: 3322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monastic555 View Post
According to the Bible, all Non-christians will be sent to Eternal Torture in Fire. But what if a Non- christian has been law-abiding and charitable all his life. Will he be tortured just as much in the fire as Evil-doers?


I'm sure that everybody will agree that murder is the most evil deed of all. So don't you feel that murderers should receive far greater punishment in Hell than others?

The point is that there are crimes and atrocities that are much more evil and heinous than others. Let's say, what if someone was just a pathological Liar, will his punishment in Hell be just as agonizing as all other offenses? Many Christians believe so.

And what about prostitutes and Gamblers and husbands who cheat on their wives? Will they receive just as much punishment, just as much torture in Hell as other offenses? Many Christians believe so.

It's different here on Earth where evildoers receive punishment in different degrees according to the individual severity of their crimes. Why is it reversed in Hell?

You can't prove any of this from the Bible. It's all dogma from men of religion, man-made doctrines.
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