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Old 08-17-2018, 03:31 AM
 
3,661 posts, read 1,138,687 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
See the beginnings of God interaction with man came from the man Adam which most evolutionist reject out right so then they could miss the purpose ..... See Adam would of been the first Saviour for the salvation to be in unity with the living God ...... So God gave the earth to Adam by the garden of Eden , and Adam rejected God Word and failed, and the earth became under spiritual authority of the devil , as the devil deceived Adam to sin against God ............ Then God went on a long Work to bring back the spiritual authority of the earth which took some 4 thousand years later which God brought Jesus Christ to take back what was lost by Adam and Jesus became the Saviour , where the Jews ushered Jesus the redeemer in by their faith which God needed in the earth ......... The Old Testament is a journey of God to bring a Saviour back so God could have unity with man and women
Do you read what you write?

Seriously, was it Adams fault or the devils?
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Old 08-17-2018, 07:17 AM
 
Location: central Florida
983 posts, read 356,703 times
Reputation: 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by walmill View Post
Moderator cut: Moved by request from R&S to Christianity

As some background I’ve been a lifelong “atheist” for as long as I’ve known or been able to form an opinion. I’ve always been pretty firm in my belief or “non-belief” which ever way you want to look at it. I’ve never been the militant type though. As I grow older I am opening up to the concept of something greater being out there, there are being more to life than just ceasing to exist and other such great questions. As much as I would love to accept or perhaps follow Jesus's overall message of love there is still one thing that Still I am unable to reconcile. I would like opinions and examples from real life perspectives and people, not polished and formulated opinions by “professional” Christian or other big-name types.
My concern is as follows how and in what way does the old testament apply and serve a purpose to everyday Christians?
Without being able to quote specific verses, as I don’t have any memorized and this is not a matter of finding the most controversial or gruesome verse, I’m not trying to stir the pot.
Do we have free will to pick and choose which if any of the Old Testament we want to apply ? For example some Christians will suddenly decide to stop eating pork because “it’s in the Bible” but won’t practice circumcision (from a religious standpoint) even though “its in the bible”. Im also not questioning why some of us “sin” yet are so-called Christians.
Is it appropriate to view the Old Testament solely in terms of more or less a historical background information and solely receive the actual implications in applications of from the New Testament?

I hope this post makes sense I whipped it up on my lunch break.
You can "view" the Bible or any part of the Bible any way you want.

That doesn't mean you will arrive at an accurate understanding. You have to study the literature, not just form an opinion about it. An unstudied opinion is about as useless as last week's lunch/garbage. It pretty much stinks like it too.

Atheists aren't the only people who are able to form an opinion. One does not necessarily flow from the other. Religious people have been able to form an opinion since long before Jesus walked the earth. Atheists didn't invent the thing, though they seem to want to take credit for it.

Jesus didn't express "an overall message of love". You didn't read the gospels, apparently. Another case of unstudied opinion. Did you not "view" that section? If Jesus' words are to be taken seriously they must all be "viewed". Don't feel bad. Many Christians have no idea what Jesus said either. They have illiterate "views" too.

The Old Covenant establishes THE LAW. The New Covenant fulfills it.

Many Christians don't understand this concept. I wouldn't expect an atheist to understand it without "viewing" the literature in its entirety. I'm not taking a shot at your philosophical position here - many Christians are more ignorant of their religion than those who are not Christian. Ignorant opinion can lead to gross error and misunderstanding. That's true for Christians more than anyone else. You don't have to buy it, but it would be helpful if you understood the intention of the Bible before you form a stigmatic "view" of it.

Nobody ever saw the big picture of a Jigsaw puzzle without assembling all the pieces.

You can't put a couple lonely pieces together and assume you see the whole picture. Either finish the project or leave it alone.

If a Christian decides to stop eating pork (or any meat at all) because it's in the Bible (1) WHAT IS THAT TO YOU? Have you now come to the place where you judge others and expect them to abide by your "view" of behavior?

According to the Bible, man has free will.
Man can choose to accept God's gift of immortal life in the name of Jesus Christ.
Otherwise man suffers the natural extension of his physical and spiritual mortality.
It's called the Second Death - absolute spiritual annihilation and permanent destruction.

Man is mortal.
When his body dies his mind dies. The dead body is buried.
His spirit dies too and is consigned to spiritual death. It literally wastes away to nothing unless something changes its condition.(2)
The change is called the Second Birth and it must happen during physical life - before the silver cord is broken. (Ecclesiastes 12:6)

These are springs without water, and mists driven by a storm, for whom the black darkness has been reserved.” - 2 Peter 2:17

That's the birds and the bees of spiritual reality.
It doesn't matter what your "view" is any more than your "view" of the laws of physics, but it might profit you to learn more about it.
Christians too, by the way. They seem to be stuck in their religious slogans and buzz words - unable to learn anything of substance from their own Holy Book.

In human society one's "view" is not autonomous. One's attitude and behavior is largely governed by what society demands and expects. The same is true for the Kingdom of Heaven.

God doesn't give a rat's soggy bottom about your "view" of things. (Romans 2:11)

What is of great importance and possible profit to you is your apprehension of God's "view".

Try to look at it that way. You might learn something.....and you might be able to teach Christians a few things they hadn't learned along the way as well.

God knows they need it as much as you do.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

(1) The prophet Daniel and three friends did not eat any meat at all. It's not a law. It's just what they chose to do.

The book of Leviticus doesn't allow Jews to eat pork. It also doesn't allow eating shellfish, dog, cat, rat, crow, pigeon, most insects or to get a tattoo. It says nothing about dietary restrictions of goyim (gentiles). Therefore gentile Christians can eat any garbage they want....or not ... as the case may be. St. Paul says a Christian should eat or refrain from eating so as to not offend a brother.

Muslims generally adhere to the Jewish dietary laws as well. Ask one. It's his choice too. What business is it of yours to question his religious motivations? If he doesn't have a knife at your throat consider yourself lucky and leave it at that.

(2) The Bible says man is mortal. (Genesis 6:23a) Only God is immortal. (1 Tim 6:16) Therefore unless God grants a portion of His eternal spirit to man, man's spirit will die - be annihilated and totally destroyed. (Matt 7:23)

The Bible does not support the dogma of hell. Instead it talks about the Second Death. Many Christians hold to the myth of eternal torture taught by Herodotus, adopted by the Greeks and popularized by Dante Aguileri. According to the Bible God does not torture......GOD KILLS. Big difference.

Jesus said, "fear Him who can kill body and spirit" - Matt 10:28b

Last edited by Choir Loft; 08-17-2018 at 08:08 AM..
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Old 08-17-2018, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Mars City
5,091 posts, read 2,146,466 times
Reputation: 7505
Quote:
Originally Posted by walmill View Post
Do we have free will to pick and choose which if any of the Old Testament we want to apply ? For example some Christians will suddenly decide to stop eating pork because “it’s in the Bible” but won’t practice circumcision (from a religious standpoint) even though “its in the bible”.
Is it appropriate to view the Old Testament solely in terms of more or less a historical background information and solely receive the actual implications in applications of from the New Testament?
We definitely have free will. That's why every day involves choices, including how we respond to and communicate with others, whether we help others, be neutral, or screw them over, and if we live in a manner than promotes health and harmony with others or be trashy and act hazardously (like driving dangerously, etc).

Spiritual matters are included as well, including how we view God (or don't; don't believe in him). As far as the Old Testament goes, that's another area of free choice. We each decide as we prefer. Regardless of our approach, it should agree with who we are. The benefits, no effects, or repercussions will match accordingly.

Some see the OT as a good reference, though not mandatory for daily living, spiritual life, and even Christianity. Some see the NT as a full update and advance over the more primitive nature of the OT. There are enough references in the NT to the OT to include the most necessary and relevant information.

Some like the OT though because of the earlier, militant nature of the older covenant of God (with the Jewish people). That there is no Jesus in it doesn't bother them. Some are wired that way, with lots of angst, and are drawn to that, over the loving and peaceful ways of Jesus and what applies to all people. But it still goes back to people and individual choices, whether they want to encourage war or peace, in the most basic of terms.

Last edited by Thoreau424; 08-17-2018 at 09:02 AM..
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Old 08-17-2018, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
16,286 posts, read 7,659,774 times
Reputation: 1719
DEFINITELY worth repearing:
"Some see the OT as a good reference, though not mandatory for daily living, spiritual life, and even Christianity. Some see the NT as a full update and advance over the more primitive nature of the OT. There are enough references in the NT to the OT to include the most necessary and relevant information.

Some like the OT though because of the earlier, militant nature of the older covenant of God (with the Jewish people). That there is no Jesus in it doesn't bother them. Some are wired that way, with lots of angst, and are drawn to that, over the loving and peaceful ways of Jesus and what applies to all people. But it still goes back to people and individual choices, whether they want to encourage war or peace, in the most basic of terms."

Last edited by nateswift; 08-17-2018 at 10:37 AM..
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Old 08-17-2018, 10:53 AM
Status: "Living rent-free in Mr. Wade’s head" (set 23 hours ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
16,362 posts, read 8,903,254 times
Reputation: 1659
If you dismiss the OT, you miss the the “why” of the NT.
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Old 08-17-2018, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Mars City
5,091 posts, read 2,146,466 times
Reputation: 7505
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
If you dismiss the OT, you miss the the “why” of the NT.
I never said anything about "dismissing" the OT. Putting emphasis and priority on the NT does not equate to dismissing the OT. A person can still investigate the OT as needed for background and reference.

Simply put, focusing on the old covenant is less useful and applicable than doing so with the newer / updated covenant.
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Old 08-17-2018, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,839 posts, read 4,976,659 times
Reputation: 1510
Hey, Maybe the people who despise the law and the prophets can tell us something about it, yeah, that is a good idea.
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Old 08-17-2018, 11:24 AM
 
5,965 posts, read 1,705,354 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by walmill View Post
Moderator cut: Moved by request from R&S to Christianity

As some background I’ve been a lifelong “atheist” for as long as I’ve known or been able to form an opinion. I’ve always been pretty firm in my belief or “non-belief” which ever way you want to look at it. I’ve never been the militant type though. As I grow older I am opening up to the concept of something greater being out there, there are being more to life than just ceasing to exist and other such great questions. As much as I would love to accept or perhaps follow Jesus's overall message of love there is still one thing that Still I am unable to reconcile. I would like opinions and examples from real life perspectives and people, not polished and formulated opinions by “professional” Christian or other big-name types.
My concern is as follows how and in what way does the old testament apply and serve a purpose to everyday Christians?
Without being able to quote specific verses, as I don’t have any memorized and this is not a matter of finding the most controversial or gruesome verse, I’m not trying to stir the pot.
Do we have free will to pick and choose which if any of the Old Testament we want to apply ? For example some Christians will suddenly decide to stop eating pork because “it’s in the Bible” but won’t practice circumcision (from a religious standpoint) even though “its in the bible”. Im also not questioning why some of us “sin” yet are so-called Christians.
Is it appropriate to view the Old Testament solely in terms of more or less a historical background information and solely receive the actual implications in applications of from the New Testament?

I hope this post makes sense I whipped it up on my lunch break.
If you really want to understand, read the NT book of Romans. The OT Law was given to show that the Jewish people could not live under it. They consistently failed, and rebelled, and it did not make them righteous. It showed the need for a savior. Jesus lived, and died, having perfectly obeying and perfectly living the Law. He was innocent, but died on the cross a sinner's death, and he gave us his righteousness if we trust him by faith.

What the OT does for us now is to show us we need him.
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Old 08-17-2018, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
16,286 posts, read 7,659,774 times
Reputation: 1719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
Hey, Maybe the people who despise the law and the prophets can tell us something about it, yeah, that is a good idea.
"Despise" and recognize shortcomings are not the same thing, Hannibal. Hey, even YOU know that the provisions of the Law are not to be taken literally, what do YOU see as the difference between that and "despising" the Law?
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Old 08-17-2018, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
16,286 posts, read 7,659,774 times
Reputation: 1719
Hannibal, false statement:"The law is a marriage contract, you reject it, and you reject the marriage."
I reject THOSE terms for a contract of marriage and respect what Jesus taught is required, not what those who idolize one cultural heritage believe. I DO believe the Bible is a great tool for the authority THAT book names, why do YOU idolize the book instead of the Guide Jesus taught?
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