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Old 08-10-2018, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Oort cloud
101 posts, read 100,719 times
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Moderator cut: Moved by request from R&S to Christianity

As some background I’ve been a lifelong “atheist” for as long as I’ve known or been able to form an opinion. I’ve always been pretty firm in my belief or “non-belief” which ever way you want to look at it. I’ve never been the militant type though. As I grow older I am opening up to the concept of something greater being out there, there are being more to life than just ceasing to exist and other such great questions. As much as I would love to accept or perhaps follow Jesus's overall message of love there is still one thing that Still I am unable to reconcile. I would like opinions and examples from real life perspectives and people, not polished and formulated opinions by “professional” Christian or other big-name types.
My concern is as follows how and in what way does the old testament apply and serve a purpose to everyday Christians?
Without being able to quote specific verses, as I don’t have any memorized and this is not a matter of finding the most controversial or gruesome verse, I’m not trying to stir the pot.
Do we have free will to pick and choose which if any of the Old Testament we want to apply ? For example some Christians will suddenly decide to stop eating pork because “it’s in the Bible” but won’t practice circumcision (from a religious standpoint) even though “its in the bible”. Im also not questioning why some of us “sin” yet are so-called Christians.
Is it appropriate to view the Old Testament solely in terms of more or less a historical background information and solely receive the actual implications in applications of from the New Testament?

I hope this post makes sense I whipped it up on my lunch break.

Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 08-10-2018 at 10:39 AM.. Reason: acknowledging requested move
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Old 08-10-2018, 10:20 AM
 
39,257 posts, read 10,922,331 times
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Perfect sense, and I think you are right. If you just want to get advice as to how to fit the OT into being a Christian, Christianity Forum is the place. R/S is pretty much an atheist protectorate now (flag designs may be submitted online folks - winner gets a rep) and you won't want to be hearing from us
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Old 08-10-2018, 11:19 AM
 
21,954 posts, read 16,744,092 times
Reputation: 8761
Quote:
Originally Posted by walmill View Post
Moderator cut: Moved by request from R&S to Christianity

As some background I’ve been a lifelong “atheist” for as long as I’ve known or been able to form an opinion. I’ve always been pretty firm in my belief or “non-belief” which ever way you want to look at it. I’ve never been the militant type though. As I grow older I am opening up to the concept of something greater being out there, there are being more to life than just ceasing to exist and other such great questions. As much as I would love to accept or perhaps follow Jesus's overall message of love there is still one thing that Still I am unable to reconcile. I would like opinions and examples from real life perspectives and people, not polished and formulated opinions by “professional” Christian or other big-name types.
My concern is as follows how and in what way does the old testament apply and serve a purpose to everyday Christians?
Without being able to quote specific verses, as I don’t have any memorized and this is not a matter of finding the most controversial or gruesome verse, I’m not trying to stir the pot.
Do we have free will to pick and choose which if any of the Old Testament we want to apply ? For example some Christians will suddenly decide to stop eating pork because “it’s in the Bible” but won’t practice circumcision (from a religious standpoint) even though “its in the bible”. Im also not questioning why some of us “sin” yet are so-called Christians.
Is it appropriate to view the Old Testament solely in terms of more or less a historical background information and solely receive the actual implications in applications of from the New Testament?

I hope this post makes sense I whipped it up on my lunch break.
The greater part of the Old Testament concerns God's dealings with Israel to whom he gave the Mosaic law with its rituals and requirements. As the apostle Paul explained in Galatians 3:23:25, the Mosaic law acted as a tutor to lead Israel to Christ. With the coming of faith in the person and work of Jesus, once Jesus was revealed, the law was no longer needed to act as a tutor.
Gal. 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24] Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25] But since that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,
The Mosaic law was never given to the church and therefore there is no requirement for believers today to observe the rituals and restrictions that Israel was required to observe. To use your example, there is no need to refrain from eating pork.

The value of the Old Testament or Hebrew Bible is that it is the beginning of the story and provides the history of God's dealings with mankind. But we are now in a period of history in which, with the coming of Jesus and the beginning of the church-age, we have the New Testament writings which contain the teachings of the apostles to the church.

Having said that, there are certainly useful things in the Psalms and Proverbs which a believer today can apply to his life. And reading them can be motivational. So while believers today are not under the ritual requirements of the Mosaic law, the Old Testament writings do serve a purpose.

There are a couple of people on this forum who will disagree vehemently with what I said, but the apostle Paul makes it pretty clear that we are free of the Mosaic Law. Read Romans 7:1-6 which basically says that the believer, being joined to Christ, is released from the law.
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Old 08-10-2018, 11:56 AM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,093 posts, read 23,951,381 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The greater part of the Old Testament concerns God's dealings with Israel to whom he gave the Mosaic law with its rituals and requirements. As the apostle Paul explained in Galatians 3:23:25, the Mosaic law acted as a tutor to lead Israel to Christ. With the coming of faith in the person and work of Jesus, once Jesus was revealed, the law was no longer needed to act as a tutor.
Gal. 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24] Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25] But since that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,
The Mosaic law was never given to the church and therefore there is no requirement for believers today to observe the rituals and restrictions that Israel was required to observe. To use your example, there is no need to refrain from eating pork.

The value of the Old Testament or Hebrew Bible is that it is the beginning of the story and provides the history of God's dealings with mankind. But we are now in a period of history in which, with the coming of Jesus and the beginning of the church-age, we have the New Testament writings which contain the teachings of the apostles to the church.

Having said that, there are certainly useful things in the Psalms and Proverbs which a believer today can apply to his life. And reading them can be motivational. So while believers today are not under the ritual requirements of the Mosaic law, the Old Testament writings do serve a purpose.

There are a couple of people on this forum who will disagree vehemently with what I said, but the apostle Paul makes it pretty clear that we are free of the Mosaic Law. Read Romans 7:1-6 which basically says that the believer, being joined to Christ, is released from the law.
I strngly agree with the notion of being free from Mosaic law, however the credit must go to Jesus who set the "world" straight..Paul merely regurgitated and mostly twisted the words of Christ.
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Old 08-10-2018, 11:59 AM
 
21,954 posts, read 16,744,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
I strngly agree with the notion of being free from Mosaic law, however the credit must go to Jesus who set the "world" straight..Paul merely regurgitated and mostly twisted the words of Christ.
No, Paul didn't twist the words of Christ. What words of Jesus do you claim that Paul twisted?

Last edited by Mike555; 08-10-2018 at 12:07 PM..
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Old 08-10-2018, 12:05 PM
Status: "Waving a sign that reads John 3:16" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Walt Disney World
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In very general terms, the OT reveals sin and the NT reveals grace.
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Old 08-10-2018, 12:07 PM
Status: "Watching America made small." (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
25,910 posts, read 13,469,145 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
In very general terms, the OT reveals sin and the NT reveals grace.

More like OT = Bad Cop and NT = Good Cop.
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Old 08-10-2018, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
15,510 posts, read 12,190,741 times
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There are only a couple things I take away from the Old T...Psalm 37:4 ? Delight in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart.,
Psalm 139...just beautiful David realized who God was...

Well ok...Isaiah 26 ? 23? I will keep him in perfect peace who stays his mind on me.

Those are the top only things I get from the OT, well, this is nice... Gen 30? Jacob saw God face to face and yet survived...calling the Penuel or Peniel.

Darnnit one more ...Jeremiah...23? it's a whole thing that ends with ...But he who does boast let him boast of this, that he knows and understands me, so saith the Lord...

4 of these 5 changed the direction of my focus, thus life.
Ok that's it...but I'm not a Christian according to the Nicene Council's Creed.
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Old 08-10-2018, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,671 posts, read 1,543,046 times
Reputation: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by walmill View Post
Moderator cut: Moved by request from R&S to Christianity

As some background I’ve been a lifelong “atheist” for as long as I’ve known or been able to form an opinion. I’ve always been pretty firm in my belief or “non-belief” which ever way you want to look at it. I’ve never been the militant type though. As I grow older I am opening up to the concept of something greater being out there, there are being more to life than just ceasing to exist and other such great questions. As much as I would love to accept or perhaps follow Jesus's overall message of love there is still one thing that Still I am unable to reconcile. I would like opinions and examples from real life perspectives and people, not polished and formulated opinions by “professional” Christian or other big-name types.
My concern is as follows how and in what way does the old testament apply and serve a purpose to everyday Christians?
Without being able to quote specific verses, as I don’t have any memorized and this is not a matter of finding the most controversial or gruesome verse, I’m not trying to stir the pot.
Do we have free will to pick and choose which if any of the Old Testament we want to apply ? For example some Christians will suddenly decide to stop eating pork because “it’s in the Bible” but won’t practice circumcision (from a religious standpoint) even though “its in the bible”. Im also not questioning why some of us “sin” yet are so-called Christians.
Is it appropriate to view the Old Testament solely in terms of more or less a historical background information and solely receive the actual implications in applications of from the New Testament?

I hope this post makes sense I whipped it up on my lunch break.
thanks for the post, I'll get straight to the point. Romans 15:4 "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope".

the Law and the prophets all pointed to Christ, the redeemer of Man. the OLD testament are book point us back to Christ, which is their fulfillment.

understand, the transfiguration of Jesus on the mountian top was not to show off his glory, no, but to "TRANSFER" the will of God to himself. those who appeared to him was the representative of A. the Law-Moses, and B. the prophets-Elijah. Christ is the End of the Law and the Prophets. listen, Matthew 17:1 "And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

Matthew 17:2 "And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

Matthew 17:3 "And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him".

now this scripture makes it crystal Luke 16:16 "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it". "WERE" is a past tense designation. now that the Lord God Almighty has come, we only PREACH JESUS. what did the voice say?, "Hear ye him". not "hear ye them", meaning the Law and the prophets has passed.

see the Kingdom to come is a Spiritual Kingdom, the Kingdom of God, and the law and the prophets are nor Spiritual, only a history pointing us to "HIM", Yeshua, Jesus the Christ.

so the apostle is correct, Romans 15:4 "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope".


PICYOTG
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Old 08-10-2018, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
16,301 posts, read 7,680,345 times
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Well, OP, the Old Testament should not be looked at as a cohesive unit,but as a history of the growing perception of one ethnic group as to the nature of God, our relationship to Him and to each other, culminating in the revelation of Jesus.
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