U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 08-18-2018, 03:29 PM
Status: "6' - 220" (set 21 hours ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
25,854 posts, read 13,436,135 times
Reputation: 11686

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophiasmommy View Post
I believe that the Bible is God inspired and literal except for parables and allegories.

There's your first mistake.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-18-2018, 03:40 PM
 
5,654 posts, read 5,626,842 times
Reputation: 2869
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
There's your first mistake.
You never told me where your anger came from and why you are so desperate to hold onto it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2018, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,157 posts, read 54,630,432 times
Reputation: 66578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The only people I've seen say that the Bible=God, or that the Bible is God are the people who claim that that is what fundamentalists are saying. It's a straw man argument. Believing that the Bible is the word of God is not saying that the Bible is God.

The Bible says that Jesus is God. Many who identify as Christian reject that. Many deny that Satan is a real being despite the fact that the Bible presents him as such. Some deny that Jesus went to the cross to pay the penalty for our sins even though the Bible is quite clear that he did. Some deny the virgin birth of Jesus. Some deny that angels exist. Pcamps just denied that the Bible teaches separation. I showed that it does. Yes, many who identify as Christian deny and reject certain plain statements in the Bible.

Nor does the belief that the Bible is the word of God necessitate believing that God dictated what is written in the Bible although in some cases He did, such as in Revelation chapters 2-3 where Jesus tells John exactly what to write. Nor does it mean that God used automatic writing in which the Biblical writers unconsciously wrote what God directed them to write. But God was able to use human writers to communicate what He wanted to communicate to man.

The Bible is both the word of God and the writing of men who wrote within the framework of their own culture. It contains many genres such as literal prose, poetry, wisdom sayings, allegory, apocalyptic literature, etc. It contains some things we know not to be scientifically true, such as the Genesis creation story for instance. But the creation story was not intended to be taken literally. It was a polemic against the creation stories of the Canaanite and Egyptian creation stories. The creation story contains a theological truth - it was Yahweh who created the Universe, not the gods of the other religions. But He didn't do it in the way that Genesis says He did it.
I appreciate your taking the time to write all that out, and there is a lot in there that would be good for discussion.

But to address the bolded, I disagree. Perhaps technically you are right, but the line seems to become very, very blurred, when people declare, "Well, XYZ is thus and so because "THE BIBLE SAYS..." and because The Bible = God's Word, therefore, the Bible = God.

It doesn't. It just doesn't.
__________________
Moderator posts are in RED.
City-Data Terms of Service: http://www.city-data.com/terms.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2018, 03:44 PM
 
21,895 posts, read 16,711,964 times
Reputation: 8732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophiasmommy View Post
Uh............who said?
Sophia, Christianity doesn't demand leaving your brain at the door, and it doesn't demand that you deny demonstrable evidence. We know that the earth is billions of years old and that the Universe is billions of years older still. We know that the earth did not exist before the sun, the moon and the stars.

The Hebrews lived in the Ancient Near East (ANE) and shared many beliefs in common with the other ANE peoples, including the view of a flat earth, a solid dome sky supported by pillars, and so on. The writers of the Hebrew Bible (the Old Testament) wrote most immediately to the people of their own time and wrote in accordance with their world view. The creation story in Genesis is no more literal than the creation story in Psalm 74 which has God slaying a multl-headed sea serpent (Leviathan) which is a mythological Canaanite monster. These things are well known to Old Testament scholars.

It is not necessary to take everything in the Bible literally.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2018, 03:48 PM
Status: "6' - 220" (set 21 hours ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
25,854 posts, read 13,436,135 times
Reputation: 11686
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophiasmommy View Post
You never told me where your anger came from and why you are so desperate to hold onto it.
My "anger" is directed at fundamentalists who use the bible to bludgeon gays and other people they think their god hates.

Most are simply stupid and remain ignorant because of their diminished intellectual capacity and lack of education. Others possess some degree of intelligence and even education but their early indoctrination by bigoted parents is stronger than their empathy and common sense. I feel sorry for those people.

However, some fundies choose to remain ignorant and bigoted because that is simply their nature. They are, and will remain, my enemies because they hurt people.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2018, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,157 posts, read 54,630,432 times
Reputation: 66578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophiasmommy View Post
This is extremely arrogant; like extremely. Christianity isn't a spiritual buffet where you accept the parts that you like and ignore those that you don't. It's not about you, or me. It's about HIM.
Oh dear. Not that one again.
__________________
Moderator posts are in RED.
City-Data Terms of Service: http://www.city-data.com/terms.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2018, 03:51 PM
 
21,895 posts, read 16,711,964 times
Reputation: 8732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
I appreciate your taking the time to write all that out, and there is a lot in there that would be good for discussion.

But to address the bolded, I disagree. Perhaps technically you are right, but the line seems to become very, very blurred, when people declare, "Well, XYZ is thus and so because "THE BIBLE SAYS..." and because The Bible = God's Word, therefore, the Bible = God.

It doesn't. It just doesn't.
But God's word has been communicated in many ways through out human history. Angels have communicated God's word. So did the Old Testament prophets. God has communicated His word through dreams and visions. Jesus was the ultimate expression of God's word. The apostles communicated God's word. With the exception of Jesus, that doesn't mean that they are God. Only that they were ways in which God communicated His word. The Bible is no different in that respect regardless of how some people may misuse the Bible.

I understand though that you disagree.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2018, 03:55 PM
 
20,421 posts, read 9,840,546 times
Reputation: 1678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The only people I've seen say that the Bible=God, or that the Bible is God are the people who claim that that is what fundamentalists are saying. It's a straw man argument. Believing that the Bible is the word of God is not saying that the Bible is God.

The Bible says that Jesus is God. Many who identify as Christian reject that. Many deny that Satan is a real being despite the fact that the Bible presents him as such. Some deny that Jesus went to the cross to pay the penalty for our sins even though the Bible is quite clear that he did. Some deny the virgin birth of Jesus. Some deny that angels exist. Pcamps just denied that the Bible teaches separation. I showed that it does. Yes, many who identify as Christian deny and reject certain plain statements in the Bible.

Nor does the belief that the Bible is the word of God necessitate believing that God dictated what is written in the Bible although in some cases He did, such as in Revelation chapters 2-3 where Jesus tells John exactly what to write. Nor does it mean that God used automatic writing in which the Biblical writers unconsciously wrote what God directed them to write. But God was able to use human writers to communicate what He wanted to communicate to man.

The Bible is both the word of God and the writing of men who wrote within the framework of their own culture. It contains many genres such as literal prose, poetry, wisdom sayings, allegory, apocalyptic literature, etc. It contains some things we know not to be scientifically true, such as the Genesis creation story for instance. But the creation story was not intended to be taken literally. It was a polemic against the creation stories of the Canaanite and Egyptian creation stories. The creation story contains a theological truth - it was Yahweh who created the Universe, not the gods of the other religions. But He didn't do it in the way that Genesis says He did it.
You have some valid points, but not everything is as it seems. Much of what is in the Bible has been added in and edited to reconcile various religions and their cultures in order to create a one-world-religion. Christianism has taken and expanded upon some of these, like your Hell doctrines, Satan, fallen angels (other than the messengers who were human) who created hybrids (half-human), the lake of fire, eternal damnation and that of an immortal soul, etc. These things were never meant to be taken literally, and it was also from these cultures that brought about the ideology of a Trinity; a three-in-one God.

I know you will defend every position you do, as much of what you believe will come crumbling down around you from these mythological beliefs if you don't. And even though the view of Christianism you hold onto may be traditional, much of it is nonsensical. And doesn't play a part in any concept of reality.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2018, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,157 posts, read 54,630,432 times
Reputation: 66578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
But God's word has been communicated in many ways through out human history. Angels have communicated God's word. So did the Old Testament prophets. God has communicated His word through dreams and visions. Jesus was the ultimate expression of God's word. The apostles communicated God's word. With the exception of Jesus, that doesn't mean that they are God. Only that they were ways in which God communicated His word. The Bible is no different in that respect regardless of how some people may misuse the Bible.

I understand though that you disagree.
Actually I do agree with much of what you wrote above, although I don't think of God as a "Him". Or a "Her" for that matter , but I do understand the propensity that we humans have to personify God as well as parts of creation. One of my all-time favorite Christians, Francis of Assisi, did just that through some beautiful poetry. I find some of his writing and aspects of his life just as much "communication from God" as anything else you mentioned. Different things in different ways speak to different people.

In my observation, people who over-rely on the Bible as their chief source of connecting with God end up with a distorted view, sometimes to the point where it's hard to tell where "the Word of God" ends and their ego begins.
__________________
Moderator posts are in RED.
City-Data Terms of Service: http://www.city-data.com/terms.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2018, 04:26 PM
 
21,895 posts, read 16,711,964 times
Reputation: 8732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
You have some valid points, but not everything is as it seems. Much of what is in the Bible has been added in and edited to reconcile various religions and their cultures in order to create a one-world-religion. Christianism has taken and expanded upon some of these, like your Hell doctrines, Satan, fallen angels (other than the messengers who were human) who created hybrids (half-human), the lake of fire, eternal damnation and that of an immortal soul, etc. These things were never meant to be taken literally, and it was also from these cultures that brought about the ideology of a Trinity; a three-in-one God.

I know you will defend every position you do, as much of what you believe will come crumbling down around you from these mythological beliefs if you don't. And even though the view of Christianism you hold onto may be traditional, much of it is nonsensical. And doesn't play a part in any concept of reality.
I don't know if you identify as Christian or not, but you are an example of someone who rejects what the Bible says. The things you mentioned are certainly presented as literal.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top