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Old 08-16-2018, 06:24 PM
 
Location: New England
32,302 posts, read 21,149,668 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Really? If the bible never existed, how would you know who Jesus is? You MAY be like the people I mentioned in some countries like North Korea that NEVER see a Bible in their life....they know Jesus based on what others have taught them.

On a second point....if the Bible says something about Jesus, and you believe and/or teach something that contradicts it...then what?

Third...what happens if what YOU believe Jesus is contradicts the liver shiver that someone else might get? You can't both be right. Who should we believe?
So you don't have a scripture to support your belief "without the bible we would not know Jesus". Thought not. Why do you believe such a thing when you cannot support it with scripture, same question goes to Finn Jarber.There's a thread with 1st hand accounts of folk of different faiths where Jesus made himself know to them.

Here is my scriptural support.

And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
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Old 08-16-2018, 07:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
The bible is not how we know Jesus, if it was you would have a scripture to support. Every good bible student backs up their beliefs with scripture. So , this you cannot know Jesus without the bible is finally put to bed, it is based on the doctrine of religious men.
The Bible is exactly how we know what we know about Jesus. The very reason the Gospels were written was to inform their immediate respective audiences, and us 2,000 years later, about who Jesus was and what he taught and did. You want supporting scripture? Here you are.

John 20:30 Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31] but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

Why were these things written? That you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. (And, by the way, that you may know these things about Jesus).

Without the Gospels to preserve what Jesus said and did, any oral tradition coming down to us from 2,000 years ago would have been hopelessly distorted. And no, you can't learn anything about Jesus just because Jesus indwells the believer (Christ in us). That's nonsense. God doesn't impart knowledge out of thin air. He isn't automatically stuffing your mind with knowledge about Jesus just because the believer is indwelt by Jesus. You wouldn't even know that Jesus indwells the believer except for the fact that it was recorded in the Bible that he does.

Some of you people who make the claim that you are making, that you don't need the Bible to know Jesus, don't even believe that Jesus is God despite the fact that the Bible plainly states that he is.

Your claim has no basis in reality.

Last edited by Mike555; 08-16-2018 at 07:55 PM..
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Old 08-16-2018, 07:57 PM
 
Location: New England
32,302 posts, read 21,149,668 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post

Your claim is ridiculous and has no basis in reality.
Says you. The scripture you quoted does not say this is the way(as in the only way, you are inserting that belief in there) we know Jesus Christ. Jesus taught to seek after him, he never once said the way you find me is through the scriptures(he said they testify of him, the one we should seek to know. Throughout the "whole' of scripture the word is seek the Lord and call upon him, to deny this is to deny the scriptures you say you believe in.
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Old 08-16-2018, 08:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Says you. The scripture you quoted does not say this is the way(as in the only way, you are inserting that belief in there) we know Jesus Christ. Jesus taught to seek after him, he never once said the way you find me is through the scriptures(he said they testify of him, the one we should seek to know. Throughout the "whole' of scripture the word is seek the Lord and call upon him, to deny this is to deny the scriptures you say you believe in.
I am telling you, You cannot know who or what Jesus Christ is apart from what has been recorded concerning him in the Bible. That's common sense. You will gain no knowledge about Jesus by pulling it out of thin air, or by contemplating your navel, or by some mystical means.

You don't even realize that your are contradicting yourself. You just said that ''the whole of scripture the word is seek the Lord and call upon him.''

Apart from the Bible which contains everything that we know about what Jesus said and did, we can know nothing about him, just as we can know nothing about any other historical person except by what has been preserved in historical sources.

You're claiming that you can know Jesus by means of mysticism. The claim is nonsense.
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Old 08-16-2018, 08:39 PM
 
Location: New England
32,302 posts, read 21,149,668 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555;52825284[B
]I am telling you, You cannot know who or what Jesus Christ is apart from what has been recorded concerning him in the Bible.[/b] That's common sense. You will gain no knowledge about Jesus by pulling it out of thin air, or by contemplating your navel, or by some mystical means.

You don't even realize that your are contradicting yourself. You just said that ''the whole of scripture the word is seek the Lord and call upon him.''

Apart from the Bible which contains everything that we know about what Jesus said and did, we can know nothing about him, just as we can know nothing about any other historical person except by what has been preserved in historical sources.

You're claiming that you can know Jesus by means of mysticism. The claim is nonsense.
You can tell me until you are blue in the face you are not going to convince me otherwise. I am telling you the scriptures(NOT I) from cover to cover exhort ALL to seek the Lord, call upon him and know him even before a word of scripture was ever written, so what you are doing is calling the scriptures ridiculous. I have absolutely no doubt if anyone earnestly seeks to know God and seeks with all their own heart they will find him(the scriptures NOT I) state this, how they find him is God's business not your imposed way of "you cannot know Jesus Christ without the bible).

The people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.You need to stop translating God to be the scriptures, it is not scriptural to do so. You need to stop too promoting the only way God speaks is by the bible, your bible clearly states differently.
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Old 08-16-2018, 08:58 PM
 
21,945 posts, read 16,738,510 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
You can tell me until you are blue in the face you are not going to convince me otherwise. I am telling you the scriptures(NOT I) from cover to cover exhort ALL to seek the Lord, call upon him and know him even before a word of scripture was ever written, so what you are doing is calling the scriptures ridiculous. I have absolutely no doubt if anyone earnestly seeks to know God and seeks with all their own heart they will find him(the scriptures NOT I) state this, how they find him is God's business not your imposed way of "you cannot know Jesus Christ without the bible).

The people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.You need to stop translating God to be the scriptures, it is not scriptural to do so. You need to stop too promoting the only way God speaks is by the bible, your bible clearly states differently.
Of course nothing is going to convince you that you are wrong. You are however, wrong. While Romans 1 (uh oh, that's in the Bible) tells us that there is a general revelation of God in his creation, that has absolutely nothing to do with having specific knowledge about Jesus Christ. Only through the recorded writings of the New Testament writers with regard to Jesus can we know anything about Jesus, and what he taught and did.

And notice how you always end up referring to the Bible in an attempt to prove that you don't need the Bible.

You, and I mean you personally, don't know one single thing about Jesus that doesn't have its source in the Bible.
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Old 08-16-2018, 09:47 PM
 
20,445 posts, read 9,856,466 times
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When you truly love other people, you know God.
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Old 08-16-2018, 11:02 PM
 
40,174 posts, read 26,797,761 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
When you truly love other people, you know God.
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Old 08-16-2018, 11:24 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
16,293 posts, read 7,677,834 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
When you truly love other people, you know God.
Plagiarist! ok, not quite
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Old 08-17-2018, 02:52 AM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,093 posts, read 23,946,764 times
Reputation: 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Of course nothing is going to convince you that you are wrong. You are however, wrong. While Romans 1 (uh oh, that's in the Bible) tells us that there is a general revelation of God in his creation, that has absolutely nothing to do with having specific knowledge about Jesus Christ. Only through the recorded writings of the New Testament writers with regard to Jesus can we know anything about Jesus, and what he taught and did.

And notice how you always end up referring to the Bible in an attempt to prove that you don't need the Bible.

You, and I mean you personally, don't know one single thing about Jesus that doesn't have its source in the Bible.
I prefer to rely on the actual WORD, aka VOICE of god. I believe this supersedes any words that MAN may written.
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