U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-14-2018, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,671 posts, read 1,537,616 times
Reputation: 115

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
No one is suggesting that women are not capable of serving God, or that God has not used women to do great things. In fact, I've heard a theory that Priscilla was the one who wrote Hebrews...and I'd have no issue with that.

But how do you reconcile the idea that women should be pastors with 1 Timothy 3?
first thanks for the response, second as the example I gave you, I see you didn't answer, not problems. just like our sister Phebe in her Bishop role, it is hidden to the Naked eye.

to understand the Female Pastor, one must understand what happen on the Day of Pentecost.

remember I asked you about acts chapter 2, did you see speaking in tongue in Joel 2:28 and 29? for the apostles on the day of Pentecost was speaking in other tongues. because Peter said, Acts 2:16 "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel". ok, do one see Speaking in other tongues in Joel 2:28 and 29? no, not to the naked natural eye, but to the Spiritual eye it's there.

how do I know this? because speaking in other tongue is in the out pouring of the spirit, it's a gifts. it was the spirit that "GAVE" then utterance, scripture, Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

understand, speaking in tongue is a Spiritual gifts. scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:10 "To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues".

see the gift was in the out pouring of the Spirit on the day of Pentecost and these Gifts are listed in 1 Corinthians 12:7 - 11.

now, the Pastoral Gift is there also, it was poured out on Pentecost, see if you can find it. remember the pastoral gift is described in Jer 3:15.

so go for it, see if you can find the pastoral gift in 1 Corinthians 12:7 - 11. and remember Joel said that it was for your DAUGHTER and sons.



PICYJAG
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-14-2018, 11:11 AM
 
5,937 posts, read 1,698,356 times
Reputation: 905
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
first thanks for the response, second as the example I gave you, I see you didn't answer, not problems. just like our sister Phebe in her Bishop role, it is hidden to the Naked eye.
She wasn't a bishop. No text even remotely comes close to saying that. You completely made that up.
Quote:
to understand the Female Pastor, one must understand what happen on the Day of Pentecost.

remember I asked you about acts chapter 2, did you see speaking in tongue in Joel 2:28 and 29? for the apostles on the day of Pentecost was speaking in other tongues. because Peter said, Acts 2:16 "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel". ok, do one see Speaking in other tongues in Joel 2:28 and 29? no, not to the naked natural eye, but to the Spiritual eye it's there.

how do I know this? because speaking in other tongue is in the out pouring of the spirit, it's a gifts. it was the spirit that "GAVE" then utterance, scripture, Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

understand, speaking in tongue is a Spiritual gifts. scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:10 "To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues".

see the gift was in the out pouring of the Spirit on the day of Pentecost and these Gifts are listed in 1 Corinthians 12:7 - 11.

now, the Pastoral Gift is there also, it was poured out on Pentecost, see if you can find it. remember the pastoral gift is described in Jer 3:15.

so go for it, see if you can find the pastoral gift in 1 Corinthians 12:7 - 11. and remember Joel said that it was for your DAUGHTER and sons.



PICYJAG
No...you've really not answered the specific question I had. 1 Timothy explicitly states that an elder or deacon is the husband of 1 wife. No woman can fulfill that requirement. This isn't about gifting. Your reference to 1 Cor 12 is a complete tangent. It has nothing to do with the issue of her serving as pastor/elder/bishop. Her gifting to do ministry doesn't mean that she was called to the role. That is 2 different things.

I'll ask again: Have you read 1 Timothy?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2018, 11:43 AM
 
Location: USA
15,906 posts, read 8,167,734 times
Reputation: 2103
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Because that is how things were back in them days. We now live in the 21st Century where anyone who has got anything about them knows back then they knew no different.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2018, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,671 posts, read 1,537,616 times
Reputation: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
She wasn't a bishop. No text even remotely comes close to saying that. You completely made that up.

No...you've really not answered the specific question I had. 1 Timothy explicitly states that an elder or deacon is the husband of 1 wife. No woman can fulfill that requirement. This isn't about gifting. Your reference to 1 Cor 12 is a complete tangent. It has nothing to do with the issue of her serving as pastor/elder/bishop. Her gifting to do ministry doesn't mean that she was called to the role. That is 2 different things.

I'll ask again: Have you read 1 Timothy?
yes, and that's if the man is married. just as in 1 Timothy 2:12.

now I asked you to produce a scripture that states a man must me married and have children to be a bishop.
now answer my question.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2018, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,671 posts, read 1,537,616 times
Reputation: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
She wasn't a bishop. No text even remotely comes close to saying that. You completely made that up.

No...you've really not answered the specific question I had. 1 Timothy explicitly states that an elder or deacon is the husband of 1 wife. No woman can fulfill that requirement. This isn't about gifting. Your reference to 1 Cor 12 is a complete tangent. It has nothing to do with the issue of her serving as pastor/elder/bishop. Her gifting to do ministry doesn't mean that she was called to the role. That is 2 different things.

I'll ask again: Have you read 1 Timothy?
I see what you're doing, READING into the scripture. I backed up the scriptures by researching OUT THE definitions of WORDS. this gives a full and complete understanding of the scriptures.

Let me ask you this BaptistFundie. is a Pastor a Bishop?

is the Lord Jesus a Bishop?

is the Lord Jesus married?


PICYJAG
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2018, 12:16 PM
 
5,937 posts, read 1,698,356 times
Reputation: 905
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
I see what you're doing, READING into the scripture. I backed up the scriptures by researching OUT THE definitions of WORDS. this gives a full and complete understanding of the scriptures.

Let me ask you this BaptistFundie. is a Pastor a Bishop?

is the Lord Jesus a Bishop?

is the Lord Jesus married?


PICYJAG
Is Jesus a bishop? No. He isn't. Is he married? His "bride" is the church. Spiritually speaking, yes. But not to a woman. Completely different topic. You're jumping around from topic to topic here.

But to the topic at hand. If Phoebe was an overseer/bishop/elder, then she had to have been a man.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2018, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,671 posts, read 1,537,616 times
Reputation: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Is Jesus a bishop? No. He isn't. Is he married? His "bride" is the church. Spiritually speaking, yes. But not to a woman. Completely different topic. You're jumping around from topic to topic here.

But to the topic at hand. If Phoebe was an overseer/bishop/elder, then she had to have been a man.
first thanks for the response, ERROR three times.

#1. is Jesus THE Bishop, 1 Peter 2:24 "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

1 Peter 2:25 "For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls".

so you're ignorant on that

#2. Is he married? His "bride" is the church. another ERROR, Revelation 21:9-10
9. One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb." 10. And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.

see the church is the body of the Lord which he is the HEAD of.

so you're ignorant on that also.

#3. Spiritually speaking... Yes, you're correct, but is the bishop wife in 1 Timothy 3:2 Spiritual? NO.

see, it's you who are unwise in Godly matters. Proverbs 25:2 "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter".

now, you want to try 1 Timothy 2:12 .....

PICYJAG
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2018, 12:41 PM
 
5,937 posts, read 1,698,356 times
Reputation: 905
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
first thanks for the response, ERROR three times.

#1. is Jesus THE Bishop, 1 Peter 2:24 "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

1 Peter 2:25 "For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls".
I'd suggest a good translation, first of all. He's referred to as the Great Shepherd, or Overseeer, not a "bishop". But it's a non-issue.

Quote:
so you're ignorant on that

#2. Is he married? His "bride" is the church. another ERROR, Revelation 21:9-10
9. One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb." 10. And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.

see the church is the body of the Lord which he is the HEAD of.

so you're ignorant on that also.
Yes. He's the Head of the Church, his bride. But again, kind of a non-issue.
Quote:



#3. Spiritually speaking... Yes, you're correct, but is the bishop wife in 1 Timothy 3:2 Spiritual? NO.

see, it's you who are unwise in Godly matters. Proverbs 25:2 "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter".

now, you want to try 1 Timothy 2:12 .....

PICYJAG

You're bouncing all over the place, and ignoring the issue. 1 Timothy 3:2

"Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money."

Is it a requirement he be married? No. But it is a given -- an assumption that he be male. Your little twisting of 1 Peter aside, that's kind of irrelevant. You haven't gotten around the issue in 1 Tim 3 yet.

Nevermind that 1 Timothy 2 bases the idea that a woman should not teach or hold authority over a man based on the order of Creation.

You have yet to explain to me how Phoebe could be an elder/bishop/overseer of a church, in light of the reading of 1 Timothy 3.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2018, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,671 posts, read 1,537,616 times
Reputation: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
I'd suggest a good translation, first of all. He's referred to as the Great Shepherd, or Overseeer, not a "bishop". But it's a non-issue.



Yes. He's the Head of the Church, his bride. But again, kind of a non-issue.



You're bouncing all over the place, and ignoring the issue. 1 Timothy 3:2

"Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money."

Is it a requirement he be married? No. But it is a given -- an assumption that he be male. Your little twisting of 1 Peter aside, that's kind of irrelevant. You haven't gotten around the issue in 1 Tim 3 yet.

Nevermind that 1 Timothy 2 bases the idea that a woman should not teach or hold authority over a man based on the order of Creation.

You have yet to explain to me how Phoebe could be an elder/bishop/overseer of a church, in light of the reading of 1 Timothy 3.
thanks for the reply, but NO, we don't need another good translation, we already have a good translation..

#2. "You have yet to explain to me how Phoebe could be an elder/bishop/overseer of a church, in light of the reading of 1 Timothy 3".

Oh I have, you just haven't read the post i made. I suggest you start from the very first post.

PS did you see the woman Pastor in 1 Corinthian 12:7-11? I guess not..... oh well, the scripture is true, "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still".

PICYJAG
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2018, 12:52 PM
 
5,937 posts, read 1,698,356 times
Reputation: 905
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
thanks for the reply, but NO, we don't need another good translation, we already have a good translation..

#2. "You have yet to explain to me how Phoebe could be an elder/bishop/overseer of a church, in light of the reading of 1 Timothy 3".

Oh I have, you just haven't read the post i made. I suggest you start from the very first post.

PS did you see the woman Pastor in 1 Corinthian 12:7-11? I guess not..... oh well, the scripture is true, "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still".

PICYJAG
Show me the verse that says Phoebe is a pastor or elder. Can you do that? Calling her a servant and fellow worker is not the same thing.

And no--there is no woman pastor mentioned in 1 Cor 12:7-11. That's a passage referring to Spiritual gifts, not offices of the church. Don't confuse the two.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top