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Old 08-13-2018, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,671 posts, read 1,541,970 times
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The apostle Paul establish the church at Rome from long distance. The saints there was in need of organization. By the Lord Jesus, the Holy Ghost, the apostle planted, establish the first Pastor/Bishop at Rome.

The letter, the epistle, which bare the city name, was sent by the apostle himself, and carried by hand of the newly appointed minister who was installed as Bishop to the saint at Rome.

The newly installed Bishop, is none other than our sister Phebe who was a Minister at the church which is at Cenchrea.

In helping out sister in this succession to Bishop is two other Bishops who are husband and wife, Priscilla and Aquila. Yes, here we have another women Bishop, and get this, Married. (well that should spark a reply because of 1 Timothy 3:2).

Many would say, “the church fathers have NOT such a letter in their possession”, to study and to rely on with confidence.

I must disagree, we have the Letter/epistle of the original church fathers. this Letter/epistle is not lost, but is found in our bibles, the Letters to the Romans.

Romans 16:1 "I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:

Romans 16:2 "That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.

Romans 16:3 "Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:

In these 3 verses alone, we see the appointment of a newly installed Bishop at Rome.

But there are many women who was “ORDAINED” in many positions of leadership within the Church of God. Many has gone unnoticed for many of years, well that;s over with now.

This one Position of Ordained Leadership caught my attention because it went unnoticed in plain sight. This was the appointment of the First Bishop/Pastor at Rome.

I wonder if the Church there have examine this epistle closely, as to it’s revelation, and or consequences in the church today.

PICYJAG
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Old 08-13-2018, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,671 posts, read 1,541,970 times
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Let's add a little sweetener to this topic. Priscilla and Aquila are the apostle Paul helpers in Christ Jesus.

this word "Helper" is the key to this letter. for in the Greek it's G4904 συνεργός sunergos (sďn-er-ğos') adj.
a co-laborer, i.e. coadjutor.
[from a presumed compound of G4862 and the base of G2041]
KJV: companion in labour, (fellow-)helper(-labourer, -worker), labourer together with, workfellow

if any are Catholic and see the word, "coadjutor", then one will know what is meant here.

according to dictionary.com, coadjutor: a bishop who assists another bishop, with the right of succession.

so the two Bishops Priscilla and Aquila helped the apostle appoint this woman, our sister Phebe into the Bishop position at the newly forming church at Rome.

PICYJAG
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Old 08-13-2018, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
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Another clue to our sister Phebe appointment. Romans 16:2 "That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also”.

This word “scourer” in the Greek, it’s G4368 προστάτις prostatis (pro-sta'-tis) n.
a patroness, i.e. assistant.
[feminine of a derivative of G4291]
KJV: succourer
Root(s): G4291

The definition states, feminine of a derivative of G4291. other words a woman in a position of what a male is doing. let’s see what G4291 means.
According to Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments,
G4291 προΐστημι proistemi (pro-iy'-stee-miy) v.
1. to stand before.
2. (in rank) to preside.
3. (by implication) to practise.
[from G4253 and G2476]
KJV: maintain, be over, rule

Looking at definition #2. to preside. it means to sit in or hold a position of authority, as over a meeting
to exercise authority; control.

From dictionary.com
Word Origin: preside, C17: via French from Latin praesidēre to superintend, from prae before + sedēre to sit.
1610s, from French présider "preside over, govern" (15c.), from Latin praesidere "stand guard; superintend," literally "sit in front of," from prae "before" (see pre-) + sedere "to sit"

beside of superintending, also stand guard, like a Shepherd/Pastor...

so, To preside is to superintend, let’s see what a Bishop do, according to Thayer's Greek Definitions, Original: ἐπίσκοπος
- Transliteration: Episkopos
- Phonetic: ep-is'-kop-os
- Definition:
1. an overseer
a. a man charged with the duty of seeing that things to be done by others are done rightly, any curator, guardian or superintendent
b. the superintendent, elder, or overseer of a Christian church
- Origin: from G1909 and G4649 (in the sense of G1983)

guardian?, yes just what a a patroness do also.

There we have it, 1. an overseer, a superintendent, just what a Bishop/Pastor do, and we have have this woman doing the same thing.

To make it simple, scourer here is the feminine of a derivative of G4291, or a better example, Male prophet .. the feminine derivative is prophetess, female prophet.

PICYJAG
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Old 08-13-2018, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Panama City, FL
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Interesting topic In Christ there is neither male or female. The patriarchal nature of the modern church is a carry over from ancient times.
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Old 08-13-2018, 06:56 PM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMusic View Post
Interesting topic In Christ there is neither male or female. The patriarchal nature of the modern church is a carry over from ancient times.
Thanks, and true, there was many women who held the highest position of office, if we can used that term, in the OT as well, PROPHET.

and women was ORDAINED in the church because, 1 Corinthians 12:28 "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues".

and there was women prophets. so these women, (as you has stated, "there is no male nor female in Christ Jesus), was ordained in the Church of God by God.

the word "set" here can be translated in the KJV as ordain, G5087 τίθημι tithemi (tiy'-thee-miy) v.
θέω theo (the'-ō) [an alternate in certain tenses]
1. to place.
2. (properly) to lay in a passive or horizontal posture.
{in the widest application, literally and figuratively; differs from G2476, which properly denotes an upright and active position, while G2749 is properly reflexive and utterly prostrate}
[a prolonged form of a primary theo theh'-o (which is used only as alternate in certain tenses)]
KJV: + advise, appoint, bow, commit, conceive, give, X kneel down, lay (aside, down, up), make, ordain, purpose, put, set (forth), settle, sink down

and it's God who set/ordain these gifts/works in the his Church.

see women was ordain all the time .... in Christ, his church, because women held the gift of prophecy, a Prophet. Acts 21:8 & 19 "And the next day we that were of Paul's company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven; and abode with him. And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy".

I cannot see why some men and women get upset about women speaking in the church, when God clearly said that A. they will prophesy, Joel 2:28 & 29 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit".

and B. God ordain Prophets, per 1 Corinthians 12:28.

so it's pure none sense as a true believer to think other wise. as well as the misconception by some on 1 Corinthians 14:34. which by the will of God I'll address later, and 1 Timothy 2:12-15.

again thanks for the post, be blessed in the Lord JESUS.
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Old 08-13-2018, 08:08 PM
 
Location: Texas and Arkansas
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Phebe wasn't an Elder of the church, neither was Paul.

Wish it was true all you want to but it is fantasy.

Being "a husband of one wife" disqualified both of them.
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Old 08-13-2018, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowdog View Post
Phebe wasn't an Elder of the church, neither was Paul.

Wish it was true all you want to but it is fantasy.

Being "a husband of one wife" disqualified both of them.
First thanks for your reply, but you ERROR, Paul was an Elder, for an Elder is an OVERSEER, who is a Bishop. supportive scripture, Acts 20:28 "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood".

these overseers was Elders of the Church, whom Paul Called, just go up to verse 17 "And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church".

so an Elder is a Overseer, and a Overseer is a Bishop or another word for Pastor.

Now what do a Pastor, Bishop, overseer, Elder do? "FEED" the flock of God" with what? answer, Jeremiah 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding".

this is the feeding mention in Acts 20:28.

Now the question is Paul a Pastor, a Bishop, overseer, Elder. YES, supportive scripture,

1 Corinthians 13:1 "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal".

1 Corinthians 13:2 "And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing".
(here Paul just told you that's he's a Pastor, Bishop, Elder. he feed with "understanding" and "knowledge"), now go back and read Jeremiah 3:15 and see what pastors feed with. also in this same verse Paul let's us know that he is a Prophet, "And though I have the gift of prophecy"

also Paul is a teacher, 1 Corinthians 4:17 "For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church".


so not only is Paul an apostle, a prophet, but also a teacher. these are set in the church, listen, 1 Corinthians 12:28 "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues".

now where do you see in the scripture above, the Pastor?, or the Bishop?, or the Overseer? or the Elder?.. right there in these titles, apostle, prophet, and teacher. I HOPE YOU LEARN SOMETHING.


so come on out of that fantasy world that you're in.

PICYJAG
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Old 08-13-2018, 11:06 PM
 
Location: Texas and Arkansas
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Neither was the husband of one wife, so neither was an elder. Deny the qualifications all you want. I'm a believer of the word.
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Old 08-13-2018, 11:21 PM
 
Location: Panama City, FL
3,140 posts, read 942,733 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
1 Corinthians 13:2 "And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing".
This is such an astounding statement. Think of it -- even if you have all those things, but not love, you are NOTHING but the sound of clanging symbols. This is what the hate mongers sound like - clanging symbols. They make a loud noise and annoy those who hear them! Why do they do this? Because they are void of AGAPE love for sinners/neighbors/one and all. They pervert the gospel which is no gospel at all. They love to hear themselves and take it upon themselves to teach things that God never meant to be taught.
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Old 08-14-2018, 12:11 AM
 
40,159 posts, read 26,789,159 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMusic View Post
This is such an astounding statement. Think of it -- even if you have all those things, but not love, you are NOTHING but the sound of clanging symbols. This is what the hate mongers sound like - clanging symbols. They make a loud noise and annoy those who hear them! Why do they do this? Because they are void of AGAPE love for sinners/neighbors/one and all. They pervert the gospel which is no gospel at all. They love to hear themselves and take it upon themselves to teach things that God never meant to be taught.
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