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I'm not discounting the existence of God. Maybe it's just not the Judeo Christian version or any other version humans know of. Some people speak of being spiritual without religious. Is that God without the Bible?
Yes. But believe it or not, some can be very dogmatic/fundamentalistic with even this concept of belief...admittedly, the end result does look like quite a bit of woo.
I'm genuinely curious. Every thread on Christianity and proof thereof ends up going back to Biblical quotes. So, to Christians in C-D land, what other evidence exists?
I agree with what gabfest said, also adding ,something from a spiritual nature. MANY humans, can say they had witness …"seeing ghost", or dead "love ones". myself along with my sister included. these are NOT dead love ones, even though they look like they are. they are demons, who pretend to be so. that alone let's me know that there are things, which can't be explained away, even though MANY will try. years ago my 1 year grandson fell down a flight of stairs,(metal), and all he got was a little bump, he hardly cried, we did! where do I feel "God" Jehovah that is came in? well at the time my grandson was asleep in his playpen ,in one of my bedrooms. he was too short to climb out of the pen, even if he could we had the door close. the room was next to mine, where me and his parents were.
the my teen daughter was in her room across the hall, also with her door close, all doors were close. after we all had calm down, my daughter said that she had heard the baby in the hall laughing. she said she thought one of us had him. she then said after the laughter, she then heard the rumbling on the stairs, that when she jumped up. at that time we as well heard it and jumped up. that baby didn't even know how to get out of the pen, let alone turn the knob to open the door. though MANY will find this hard to believe, we knew it was a demon who let him out of the room. but we also knew it was Jehovah God, by means of an Angel or himself, kept that baby from being seriously hurt.
I know many will say "evolution", but not everything came by means of that. MANY don't want to hear what's spoken from the bible. yet Jehovah God had his human servants write it so that we may learn, understand, and benefit from it. man, on his own can not give us all the answers we've ever had concerning why we're here or what will happen to humankind? they will say only ,I can't explain, but...,
I know he's very real, and as he said, he will be there for those who seek him. if we as Christians can ask God to show himself to those who don't believe, and he would, we would! but we can't and he won't! because he owes us NOTHING! we should show gratitude for the fact, that he sent his son to die for us, so that we might live. peace
Dear Scooby: The one sure way to have an answer outside the revelation of the Bible is knowing for yourself His mighty touch. Across this terrestial ball individuals are being awakened to Him!
I'm genuinely curious. Every thread on Christianity and proof thereof ends up going back to Biblical quotes. So, to Christians in C-D land, what other evidence exists?
You seem to be using the terms 'proof' and 'evidence' interchangeably, but they are not the same thing. The existence of God cannot be proven in an absolute sense. As for evidence, you can rule out scientific evidence because the supernatural is beyond the purview of naturalistic science. God can't be subjected to scientific experimentation.
Any evidence must be of an historical nature. Is there evidence that God has entered into human history at any time? The strongest evidence in that regard centers around the person of Jesus Christ. There was an historical Jesus. The idea that Jesus never existed, a claim made by mythicists, can be dismissed. The idea itself is a modern day myth. Virtually every Jesus Scholar/historian regardless of whether they are apologetic or critical agree that Jesus existed.
Jewish scholar and historian Paula Fredriksen comments,
We have facts. Facts about Jesus, and facts about the movement that formed after his crucifixion. . . .The single most solid fact about Jesus' life is his death: he was executed by the Roman prefect Pilate, on or around Passover, in the manner Rome reserved particularly for political insurrectionists, namely crucifixion.
Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews, Paula Fredriksen, pp. 7-8.
Scholar and historian Bart Ehrman, who I believe now identifies as an atheist writes,
Despite this enormous range of opinion, there are several points on which virtually all scholars of antiquity agree. Jesus was a Jewish man, known to be a preacher and teacher, who was crucified (a Roman form of execution) in Jerusalem during the reign of the Roman emperor Tiberius, when Pontius Pilate was governor of Judea.
Did Jesus Exist? The Historical Argument for Jesus of Nazareth, Bart Erhman, p.12
The question then is whether the historical figure of Jesus is also the Jesus who is portrayed in the New Testament documents. If Jesus is who he claimed to be, then God exists.
The issue then is whether the eyewitness testimony of the apostles constitutes credible evidence. Your presuppositions will largely determine your position on that matter.
Jesus historians, again, whether they are apologists or critics, generally think that the apostles saw something which led them to believe that they saw the resurrected Jesus, even though those historians don't know what it was that the apostles saw.
Quoting Paula Fredriksen,
''On or around Passover, Jesus died on a cross as King of the Jews. But shortly thereafter, various groups of his followers were convinced that they saw him again, raised from the dead.''
''For Jesus' closest followers, however, it was otherwise. Panicked by his arrest, most had fled. What happened next we cannot know for certain, because our different sources tell us different stories. Only the broadest lines are clear. Absolutely certain that Jesus was dead, some members of this small group began to perceive, and then to proclaim, that Jesus lived again. God, they said, had raised him from the dead. What these disciples actually saw or experienced is now impossible to say.''
Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews, Fredriksen, pp. 235, 261
Mark Allan Powell, in his book, Jesus as a Figure in History, quotes historian E. P. Sanders who refers to himself as a liberal, modern, secularized Protestant;
''That Jesus' followers (and later Paul) had resurrection experiences is, in my judgment, a fact. What the reality was that gave rise to the experience, I do not know.
Citing, Sanders, Historical Figure of Jesus, 280
So the issue is whether or not there are any naturalistic explanations which can account for the apostles and others believing that they actually saw the risen Jesus, or whether the best explanation is that they really did see the resurrected Jesus. With that, I'll post the following six part series by InspiringPhilosophy on the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus. Click on the actual link itself for the entire series. The video below is just the introduction.
I personally have no antisupernaturalistic presuppositions and accept that the apostles, and others, did in fact see the risen Jesus. You'll have to come to your own conclusion.
By the way, I don't know if this thread will be allowed to remain open, or remain on the Christianity forum since it sort of violates the prohibition against questioning the existence of God on this forum.
If there was any proof of a God, anywhere, we wouldn't have this discussion. Thousands of years of searching has only provided what might be termed evidence, all of which is arguable or dismissible.
I'm genuinely curious. Every thread on Christianity and proof thereof ends up going back to Biblical quotes. So, to Christians in C-D land, what other evidence exists?
Some of us have no need to provide "evidence" to anybody who demands evidence of another's faith. I have my framework within which I believe I have experienced God, both within and without the Christian tradition, but I have no evidence that will persuade you to believe as I do nor do I have any pressing need to try to get you to believe as I do. It is personal to me, and I only really share it with others who I know are open-minded enough to have the conversation.
AGAIN, I quote the Quakers: "I cannot tell you how to experience God. I can only know how I experience God."
IMO, the Bible consists of writings that are attempts by many people to try to define the undefinable. Value can be found in some of it if approached with that in mind, but the Bible is not any more evidence than anything else is.
I'm genuinely curious. Every thread on Christianity and proof thereof ends up going back to Biblical quotes. So, to Christians in C-D land, what other evidence exists?
All of creation around you shows a Create exists. Then the Bible brings Him to you at a personal level.
The existence of God cannot be proven in an absolute sense. As for evidence, you can rule out scientific evidence because the supernatural is beyond the purview of naturalistic science. God can't be subjected to scientific experimentation. .
Uniquely the more genetics is studied there more evident it becomes that God exists. Naturalism at its core denies God, but science is proving naturalists wrong. They just won't admit it or teach it.
All of creation around you shows a Create exists. Then the Bible brings Him to you at a personal level.
Do you have scripture to support this view?. What i can tell you is what the scriptures actually do say...if you seek him you will find him, if you draw near to him, he will draw near to you.
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