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We can talk about Christ's anger at the change table, but we shouldn't be turning over change tables ourselves. We may be Christians, but we are not Christ. And if we think we can do s/t like that and call ourselves Christians, we have become a mockery.
I am confused by this post. It seems to be saying that as Christians we have no right to get angry or to display anger....only Christ should be allowed to do that. If I'm misunderstanding your post, I apologize. However, if I am understanding it correctly, I disagree with your comments. Ephesians 4:26 says, "Be ye angry, and sin not". I believe there is room for "righteous anger". The kind of anger you feel when someone is being mistreated, or abused. This is the type of situation that Isaiah30:18 was describing with the homeless girl. The person "witnessing" was abusing their power. They were mistreating this girl by witnessing in an inappropriate manner. Had they not been interrupted by Isaiah30:18, who knows if this girl would have ever heard about the real love and mercy that Christ offers freely? I agree with the righteous anger being displayed by Isaiah. You can't accept "everything under the sun" simply for the sake of not being devisive. There is more harm in that then there is in showing righteous anger.
The post by Isaiah came off as quite divisive. Righteous anger is appropriate. But does that include being arrogant, obnoxious, and verbally aggressive? Isaiah's words and comments were full of wholesale, broad-brush condemnation and rebuke. His gun is drawn before one can reach a hand out in greeting. There is too much of a one-sided approach that he takes - for or against. Having read his other posts, this is very different and not terribly characteristic of his tone, but I didn't read all.
The world has more colors, even greys, that are not being noted or appreciated. The initial post is not an amazing source of inspiration. I do appreciate mission work as well, and many more persons are coming to the US to evangelize b/c of the death of Christianity in this country.
I had supported the position Isaiah took regarding evangelism in America and our tired traditions regarding biblical understanding and studying. I do not engage in guerilla evangelism; it is about being a Christian and living the life, not about the amount of words/scriptures I can drop on a person in 15 minutes, with John 3:16 and G-d loves you, and then I'm ghost. I am able to appreciate being 'on fire,' although I have a great respect for contemplation too, as far as Christian behaviors.
My comments at most were chiding, a clearly poor attempt to take the edge off bitterness. If Isaiah is offended by my comments, and the tone of my 'upbraiding' was misconstrued, my apologies are extended to Isaiah and any who took offense. But this does not overlook the venom that was expressed. This is burn-out with a hint of narcissism. If persons did things my way, the way I read the bible, not out of other books, etc... comes through again and again. There is nothing righteous about that. And people can get saved by Chick tracts (sp.) My sister-in-law did.
Take a break or get back to basics, but don't go on blast. There is no reference to heart, it is about the expressions used in the post. And as far as personal, it was about how Isaiah was speaking and how it was being said, not about Isaiah. Behaviors and persons are separate. And the other posts by Isaiah are of a different tone, as mentioned earlier. Finally, about being a stranger, I've been around since Mar, 07. Again, apologies extended.
That's so comforting to know. Thanks much for your input.
That's really why I posted this....(and wanted to see how many gentle souls are out there). Have you ever read that cool verse about God writing His law on the hearts of people who don't even know about Him?
These are still the days of grace. Until Christ says otherwise, I'm stickin' with that one!!....HIS agenda...
Nor was Christ milk-toasty about His agenda. I mean He indeed preached strongly about the very physical presence of eternal separation from God, but notice when and where He did that.... certainly not while healing the blind Bartimaeus (sp?) or raising the little girl from the dead or even telling the prostitute "go and sin no more" which, for many, would've seemed like the perfect time "to really let her have it!" But no, He was composed while letting her know how He felt about adultery as sin. There are so many ways one can tell someone that what they're doing is wrong in human eyes or sin in the eyes of a holy God. I just love the perfect way Jesus did it.
Jesus rocks!!!!
Thanks Isaiah. Actually I have not seen that verse, post it so I can look it up.
And dojilynn, I think you can get angry, but if someone is down and out, I think the last thing someone should hear is anger and contempt and how they are going to go to hell. One should try and lift their spirits and bring them closer to God, not just push them farther away. I have gotten angry once or twice but there is a time and place for it. Okay maybe there is never a good time for it, but just maybe not as bad.
And dojilynn, I think you can get angry, but if someone is down and out, I think the last thing someone should hear is anger and contempt and how they are going to go to hell. One should try and lift their spirits and bring them closer to God, not just push them farther away. I have gotten angry once or twice but there is a time and place for it. Okay maybe there is never a good time for it, but just maybe not as bad.
My post was not advocating witnessing in anger. On the contrary, I was saying that Isaiah seemed to be in the right in feeling angry about they way the other person was doing the witnessing.
It's not the homeless girl who was broken in your post.
For whatever it's worth coming from June, (who did look up the above passage, by the way!) I think Isaiah's anger has a place in the encounter described. I may not be a "believer" and I may not have as much of a voice in saying this, but I thought that all were loved equally in Jesus's eyes...I guess I thought that Jesus came to bring salvation to all individuals; the down trodden and marginalized, especially. I guess I thought that Christianity spoke to the fact that all are worthy of God's love...I guess I thought that a homeless girl's soul mattered as much as anyone else's soul...I guess I thought that those who go out into the streets of our cities every day, attempting to help the homeless thought differently...I guess I thought there was a real message of strength and hope that could be delivered to people who are so, so desperately in need of just some semblance of hope...I guess I actually had hope in that sort of hope...
I guess I am naive.
The despair that exists in people's lives is real. I guess I don't understand what shaming or scaring someone is supposed to accomplish. I guess I thought that finding God, finding Jesus, was about finding one's soul, finding one's self, and finding Him within themselves...and therein finding salvation and hope...
I thought it was about love.
Perhaps I truly am naive, but I don't think so...It was not the homeless girl who was truly broken in the above posted scenario. June is thinking that perhaps it was the person who was unable to look into her eyes, into her soul, and see his own reflected there. --And in doing so, to respond to her with compassion, with kindness, with love...
"And the greatest of these is love."
--Idyll thoughts from an atheist shrink who has a few patients who are, or are about to become....
It's not the homeless girl who was broken in your post.
For whatever it's worth coming from June, (who did look up the above passage, by the way!) I think Isaiah's anger has a place in the encounter described. I may not be a "believer" and I may not have as much of a voice in saying this, but I thought that all were loved equally in Jesus's eyes...I guess I thought that Jesus came to bring salvation to all individuals; the down trodden and marginalized, especially. I guess I thought that Christianity spoke to the fact that all are worthy of God's love...I guess I thought that a homeless girl's soul mattered as much as anyone else's soul...I guess I thought that those who go out into the streets of our cities every day, attempting to help the homeless thought differently...I guess I thought there was a real message of strength and hope that could be delivered to people who are so, so desperately in need of just some semblance of hope...I guess I actually had hope in that sort of hope...
I guess I am naive.
The despair that exists in people's lives is real. I guess I don't understand what shaming or scaring someone is supposed to accomplish. I guess I thought that finding God, finding Jesus, was about finding one's soul, finding one's self, and finding Him within themselves...and therein finding salvation and hope...
I thought it was about love.
Perhaps I truly am naive, but I don't think so...It was not the homeless girl who was truly broken in the above posted scenario. June is thinking that perhaps it was the person who was unable to look into her eyes, into her soul, and see his own reflected there. --And in doing so, to respond to her with compassion, with kindness, with love...
"And the greatest of these is love."
--Idyll thoughts from an atheist shrink who has a few patients who are, or are about to become....
homeless.
Take gentle care.
No, June...you are anything but naive! You hit the nail right on the head with this post! I wish all Christians would open their eyes to the real message, and realize that the message is for everyone, not just the people who fit their mold.
Thank you, June, for showing us what Christianity should be all about!
It's not the homeless girl who was broken in your post.
For whatever it's worth coming from June, (who did look up the above passage, by the way!) I think Isaiah's anger has a place in the encounter described. I may not be a "believer" and I may not have as much of a voice in saying this, but I thought that all were loved equally in Jesus's eyes...I guess I thought that Jesus came to bring salvation to all individuals; the down trodden and marginalized, especially. I guess I thought that Christianity spoke to the fact that all are worthy of God's love...I guess I thought that a homeless girl's soul mattered as much as anyone else's soul...I guess I thought that those who go out into the streets of our cities every day, attempting to help the homeless thought differently...I guess I thought there was a real message of strength and hope that could be delivered to people who are so, so desperately in need of just some semblance of hope...I guess I actually had hope in that sort of hope...
I guess I am naive.
The despair that exists in people's lives is real. I guess I don't understand what shaming or scaring someone is supposed to accomplish. I guess I thought that finding God, finding Jesus, was about finding one's soul, finding one's self, and finding Him within themselves...and therein finding salvation and hope...
I thought it was about love.
Perhaps I truly am naive, but I don't think so...It was not the homeless girl who was truly broken in the above posted scenario. June is thinking that perhaps it was the person who was unable to look into her eyes, into her soul, and see his own reflected there. --And in doing so, to respond to her with compassion, with kindness, with love...
"And the greatest of these is love."
--Idyll thoughts from an atheist shrink who has a few patients who are, or are about to become....
homeless.
Take gentle care.
ILNC thinks June understands a lot better than she realizes
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Thanks much for your input.
