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Old 09-04-2018, 08:26 AM
 
21,813 posts, read 16,674,400 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClementofA View Post
No, that is not my argument, Mike. My post (#10 in this thread) was in quotes & quoted entirely from the Modalist page. Such are not my arguments, therefore. In fact, BTW, I am Trinitarian. I don't believe in the ridiculous Modalist viewpoint.
I see. On that particular issue then, we are in agreement.
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Old 09-04-2018, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
15,355 posts, read 12,114,801 times
Reputation: 16598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyndarn View Post
.. so many preachers who still PREACH "Hell and DAMNATION" from the pulpit ......It's only preached to a very small portion who somehow get brainwashed to believe unless 100% abdication to that message ( kind of like OATH of Loyalty) THEN YOU are DOOMED!!

It's not true..and it's nothing more than FEAR Mongering to make those BOW down to their ( human leaders) word ..
Loved your post...on the above, tho...my perspective is I love the FEAR mongering preachers...why?
Because there are VERY bad people out there that want to rob and harm me...THEY need a slap upside the head regarding HELL to scare a few to NOT harm people and rob 7/11s at gunpoint.

That is the only kind of talk that grabs their attention if someone drags them to church.

My atheist landlord, my friend in '79 Boston...told me he loved religion....if not for religion
he would get robbed more often (businesses in diff states), this is what I mean.

Preach in MY face about fear and hell and I will smile and walk in the other direction.

(montra...did you mean mantra?)
Enjoying your input, Lyndarn.
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Old 09-04-2018, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,958 posts, read 22,099,030 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClementofA View Post
Trinitarianism or Modalism?
Two options of many, actually.
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Old 09-04-2018, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
16,257 posts, read 7,646,560 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Two options of many, actually.
Not one of which makes a spot of difference in your relationship to God and man whether tyou see it that way or not, so what you push is just a question of ego isn't it?
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Old 09-04-2018, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,958 posts, read 22,099,030 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
Not one of which makes a spot of difference in your relationship to God and man whether tyou see it that way or not, so what you push is just a question of ego isn't it?
To a certain extent, yes. I mean, I believe that God wants us to "get it right," but I don't think He's so petty as to punish us if we don't.
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Old 09-04-2018, 12:40 PM
 
435 posts, read 116,396 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Two options of many, actually.
What is your view Katzpur? A Mormon perspective, perhaps? Though unrelated to Katz purring? Or do cats get to join the Godhead, too
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Old 09-04-2018, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,671 posts, read 1,536,920 times
Reputation: 115
All our views should be what the bible view is. Father, Son, are only titles of the one Spirit.

the TRUE God is the Holy Spirit, JESUS, whom many put last, (without Knowledge). titles are not separate Persons. there is only one who holds the title both Father, (First) without flesh, and Son with flesh (Last).

the titles "First" and the "Last" clearly proves this out. ONE PERSON

and the only answer to this TRUTH is that God is the Diversity of himself in flesh. not a separate "PERSON", but the same PERSON shared in another form as Phil 2:6-7 clearly explains this points out.

just as the definition G243 allos prove out. the scriptures states, 1 Thessalonians 5:21 "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good".

the trinity have been proven false, as well as the JW beliefs, the mormon, the Unitarians, and all the rest.

as the scriptures states, Romans 3:10-18 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: "Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: "Their feet are swift to shed blood: "Destruction and misery are in their ways: "And the way of peace have they not known: "There is no fear of God before their eyes".

I suggest we all read the bible without other influences.


PICYJAG
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Old 09-04-2018, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,958 posts, read 22,099,030 times
Reputation: 10688
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClementofA View Post
What is your view Katzpur? A Mormon perspective, perhaps? Though unrelated to Katz purring? Or do cats get to join the Godhead, too
Our first Article of Faith states: We believe in God the Eternal Father, and in His Son Jesus Christ and in the Holy Ghost. We believe that Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God (the Father) in the flesh. While we believe that God is the Father of the spirits of each and every person who has ever lived, and that we are all His spirit offspring, Jesus Christ is most definitely in a class by Himself. He was with His Father in the beginning ("the beginning" being the time covered in the Bible). Under His Father's direction, He created "worlds without number." He was chosen to be "the Lamb" prior to the foundation of this world. He sits today on the right hand of His Father. Along with the Holy Ghost, the Father and the Son make up the Godhead.

We believe that our Father in Heaven and His Son Jesus Christ have a true father-son relationship. The words, "Father" and "Son," in other words, mean exactly what they say. They are not metaphorical or symbolic of a vague metaphysical relationship, in which two beings are some how both part of a single essence. We are each the physical sons and daughters of our mortal parents. Jesus Christ is the literal, physical Son of a divine Father and a mortal Mother. He was conceived in a miraculous way, but like all sons, was in the "express image of His Father's person." That is to say, He looked like Him. Dogs beget puppies, and cats beget kittens. God beget a Son who is the same species as He is. They both have bodies of flesh and bone (although, until His birth in Bethlehem, Jesus Christ was a spirit being only).

The Father and the Son are physically distinct from one another, and yet they are also "one." This doctrine is taught in the Book of Mormon as well as in the Bible. We just understand the word "one" to mean something other than physical substance or essence. We believe they are "one in will and purpose, one in mind and heart, and one in power and glory." It would be impossible to explain, or even to understand, the degree of their unity. It is perfect; it is absolute. They think, feel and act as "one God." Because of this perfect unity, and because they share the title of "God," we think of them together in this way. It would be impossible for us to worship one of them without also worshipping the other.

Most Christians also use the words "co-equal" and "co-eternal" to describe the relationship between the Father and the Son. We do not. We believe that, as is again the case with all fathers and sons, the Father existed prior to His Son. No son's existence precedes his father's, and Jesus Christ is no exception to this rule. We also believe Christ to be subordinate to His Father. He is divine because of His relationship with His Father. It is, however, important to understand what we mean when we use the word "subordinate." We understand that the Son holds a subordinate position in the relationship; we do not believe Him to be an inferior being. As an example, a colonel holds an inferior position to a general, but is not an inferior being. It would probably be safe to day that most people would say that a centipede is an inferior being to a human.

We see Jesus Christ as our "God" but not as our "Father in Heaven." We see Him as our elder Brother. We believe that He came to earth at His Father's bidding, taught a gospel of love, compassion and forgiveness, showed us how we should treat one another, and died in an atoning sacrifice for our sins, enabling us to be forgiven of them and reconciled to the Father. Finally, He rose from the dead, making death no longer a permanent state. We believe all of us (not just Mormons, but every one who has ever lived) are part of God's family and that He will do everything possible (with the exception of coercion) to reunite us, not only with Him, but with our family members to enjoy eternal happiness and progression. I should probably add that we see ourselves as part of the same "species" as God, but with far to go before we are fully developed. On the other hand, Jesus taught us that we should "be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect." We don't see that as something that is going to happen in this life, but neither do we believe that Jesus would have commanded us to do something that He knew was ultimately impossible.
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Old 09-04-2018, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,958 posts, read 22,099,030 times
Reputation: 10688
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
All our views should be what the bible view is. Father, Son, are only titles of the one Spirit.
I don't think that's what the Bible teaches at all.

Quote:
the trinity have been proven false, as well as the JW beliefs, the mormon, the Unitarians, and all the rest.
Except yours, you mean.

Quote:
I suggest we all read the bible without other influences.
Great. You go first.
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Old 09-04-2018, 04:42 PM
 
20,352 posts, read 9,815,907 times
Reputation: 1673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Our first Article of Faith states: We believe in God the Eternal Father, and in His Son Jesus Christ and in the Holy Ghost. We believe that Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God (the Father) in the flesh. While we believe that God is the Father of the spirits of each and every person who has ever lived, and that we are all His spirit offspring, Jesus Christ is most definitely in a class by Himself. He was with His Father in the beginning ("the beginning" being the time covered in the Bible). Under His Father's direction, He created "worlds without number." He was chosen to be "the Lamb" prior to the foundation of this world. He sits today on the right hand of His Father. Along with the Holy Ghost, the Father and the Son make up the Godhead.

We believe that our Father in Heaven and His Son Jesus Christ have a true father-son relationship. The words, "Father" and "Son," in other words, mean exactly what they say. They are not metaphorical or symbolic of a vague metaphysical relationship, in which two beings are some how both part of a single essence. We are each the physical sons and daughters of our mortal parents. Jesus Christ is the literal, physical Son of a divine Father and a mortal Mother. He was conceived in a miraculous way, but like all sons, was in the "express image of His Father's person." That is to say, He looked like Him. Dogs beget puppies, and cats beget kittens. God beget a Son who is the same species as He is. They both have bodies of flesh and bone (although, until His birth in Bethlehem, Jesus Christ was a spirit being only).

The Father and the Son are physically distinct from one another, and yet they are also "one." This doctrine is taught in the Book of Mormon as well as in the Bible. We just understand the word "one" to mean something other than physical substance or essence. We believe they are "one in will and purpose, one in mind and heart, and one in power and glory." It would be impossible to explain, or even to understand, the degree of their unity. It is perfect; it is absolute. They think, feel and act as "one God." Because of this perfect unity, and because they share the title of "God," we think of them together in this way. It would be impossible for us to worship one of them without also worshipping the other.

Most Christians also use the words "co-equal" and "co-eternal" to describe the relationship between the Father and the Son. We do not. We believe that, as is again the case with all fathers and sons, the Father existed prior to His Son. No son's existence precedes his father's, and Jesus Christ is no exception to this rule. We also believe Christ to be subordinate to His Father. He is divine because of His relationship with His Father. It is, however, important to understand what we mean when we use the word "subordinate." We understand that the Son holds a subordinate position in the relationship; we do not believe Him to be an inferior being. As an example, a colonel holds an inferior position to a general, but is not an inferior being. It would probably be safe to day that most people would say that a centipede is an inferior being to a human.

We see Jesus Christ as our "God" but not as our "Father in Heaven." We see Him as our elder Brother. We believe that He came to earth at His Father's bidding, taught a gospel of love, compassion and forgiveness, showed us how we should treat one another, and died in an atoning sacrifice for our sins, enabling us to be forgiven of them and reconciled to the Father. Finally, He rose from the dead, making death no longer a permanent state. We believe all of us (not just Mormons, but every one who has ever lived) are part of God's family and that He will do everything possible (with the exception of coercion) to reunite us, not only with Him, but with our family members to enjoy eternal happiness and progression. I should probably add that we see ourselves as part of the same "species" as God, but with far to go before we are fully developed. On the other hand, Jesus taught us that we should "be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect." We don't see that as something that is going to happen in this life, but neither do we believe that Jesus would have commanded us to do something that He knew was ultimately impossible.
I thought you may have said this before, and although I may differ in some aspects that was a good explanation. I also liked this quote: We believe they are "one in will and purpose, one in mind and heart, and one in power and glory."

I am still looking forward to that of "Dancing in the Streets."
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