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Old 09-12-2018, 08:54 AM
 
21,964 posts, read 16,744,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeWillCome2040 View Post
Neh 13:19 And it came to pass, when the gates were set up in Jerusalem, before the sabbath, that I spoke, and they shut the gates; and I gave orders that they should not be opened till after the sabbath: and I set some of my servants at the gates, that none should bring in burdens on the sabbath-day.



That above is from the Septuagint (Brenton).


Now you said the Septuagint was the proper rendering. I hope you see it differs from your Hebrew derived text.
1.) No, I did not say that the Septuagint was the proper rendering of Nehemiah 13:19. In post #2 I said that the Christian Bible at the beginning of the Church-age was the Old Testament, mainly the Septuagint, and that the NT hadn't been written yet. I said in posts #7 and 12 that most of the NT quotes of the OT were from the Septuagint. And that is all that I said concerning the Septuagint.

2.) The Septuagint version of Nehemiah 13:19 doesn't help your argument that the Sabbath began at sunrise instead of sunset anyway. The Septuagint version doesn't conflict with or contradict the Hebrew text but simply omits the mention of it growing dark before the Sabbath. In order for there to be a contradiction the Septuagint would have to say that the Sabbath began at day break. Again, the Hebrew text is quite clear in Nehemiah 13:19 that the Sabbath began after it got dark.

So don't twist what I said and don't put words in my mouth that I never said. Again, it's been shown both from the Bible and from Jewish commentators that the Hebrew day, and the Sabbath begins at around sunset.

And again, I've spent as much time on this as I care to. This post was to refute your claim about what I said concerning the Septuagint being the proper rendering of Nehemiah 13:19 and trying to make it contradict the Hebrew text.
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Old 09-12-2018, 09:15 AM
 
1,259 posts, read 298,110 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
1.) No, I did not say that the Septuagint was the proper rendering of Nehemiah 13:19. In post #2 I said that the Christian Bible at the beginning of the Church-age was the Old Testament, mainly the Septuagint, and that the NT hadn't been written yet. I said in posts #7 and 12 that most of the NT quotes of the OT were from the Septuagint. And that is all that I said concerning the Septuagint.

2.) The Septuagint version of Nehemiah 13:19 doesn't help your argument that the Sabbath began at sunrise instead of sunset anyway. The Septuagint version doesn't conflict with or contradict the Hebrew text but simply omits the mention of it growing dark before the Sabbath. In order for there to be a contradiction the Septuagint would have to say that the Sabbath began at day break. Again, the Hebrew text is quite clear in Nehemiah 13:19 that the Sabbath began after it got dark.

So don't twist what I said and don't put words in my mouth that I never said. Again, it's been shown both from the Bible and from Jewish commentators that the Hebrew day, and the Sabbath begins at around sunset.

And again, I've spent as much time on this as I care to. This post was to refute your claim about what I said concerning the Septuagint being the proper rendering of Nehemiah 13:19 and trying to make it contradict the Hebrew text.

I'm sorry if you believe I twisted your words. I surely meant no intent and will not go back to verify but will take your word for it.


Regarding Nehemiah, you do understand that in the Hebrew version of the text there is no word that says it "began" to grow dark. But obviously that needs to be inserted in order to NOT contradict a sunset beginning sabbath day.


Neh 13:19 And it came to pass,H1961 that whenH834 the gatesH8179 of JerusalemH3389 began to be darkH6751 beforeH6440 the sabbath,H7676 I commandedH559 that the gatesH1817 should be shut,H5462 and chargedH559 thatH834 they should notH3808 be openedH6605 tillH5704 afterH310 the sabbath:H7676 and some of my servantsH4480 H5288 setH5975 I atH5921 the gates,H8179 that there should noH3808 burdenH4853 be brought inH935 on the sabbathH7676 day.H3117



If you omit the "began" part it means the Gates of Jerusalem WERE Dark BEFORE the sabbath. Just wanted you to see that.
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Old 09-12-2018, 09:30 AM
 
Location: US
28,012 posts, read 15,097,026 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeWillCome2040 View Post
I'm sorry if you believe I twisted your words. I surely meant no intent and will not go back to verify but will take your word for it.


Regarding Nehemiah, you do understand that in the Hebrew version of the text there is no word that says it "began" to grow dark. But obviously that needs to be inserted in order to NOT contradict a sunset beginning sabbath day.


Neh 13:19 And it came to pass,H1961 that whenH834 the gatesH8179 of JerusalemH3389 began to be darkH6751 beforeH6440 the sabbath,H7676 I commandedH559 that the gatesH1817 should be shut,H5462 and chargedH559 thatH834 they should notH3808 be openedH6605 tillH5704 afterH310 the sabbath:H7676 and some of my servantsH4480 H5288 setH5975 I atH5921 the gates,H8179 that there should noH3808 burdenH4853 be brought inH935 on the sabbathH7676 day.H3117



If you omit the "began" part it means the Gates of Jerusalem WERE Dark BEFORE the sabbath. Just wanted you to see that.
Nechemiah - Nehemiah - Chapter 13

19 Now it came to pass when the gates of Jerusalem cast shadows before the Sabbath, that I commanded, and the doors were closed, and I said that they should not open them until after the Sabbath, and I stationed some of my youths over the gates so that no load should enter on the Sabbath day.


Casting shadows would indicate the dawning of the evening...
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Old 09-12-2018, 09:32 AM
 
Location: US
28,012 posts, read 15,097,026 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeWillCome2040 View Post
Yes, I posted this thread in the Christianity forum since I'm referring to the Sabbath as it relates to Christianity and not trying to debate what Jews believe even though I believe they observed the same.
As long as you attach Christianity to Judaism I will continue to correct your misunderstandings of the Torah...
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Old 09-12-2018, 09:33 AM
 
Location: US
28,012 posts, read 15,097,026 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeWillCome2040 View Post
the Sabbath Day is only the period from sunrise to sunset.
No, it is not...It is a 25 hour period beginning at sunset Friday till sunset Saturday...
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Old 09-13-2018, 04:53 AM
 
394 posts, read 216,487 times
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HeWillCome2040,

re: "the Sabbath Day is only the period from sunrise to sunset."


Book, chapter and verse?
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Old 09-13-2018, 02:13 PM
 
1,259 posts, read 298,110 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
HeWillCome2040,

re: "the Sabbath Day is only the period from sunrise to sunset."


Book, chapter and verse?

Back to you, show me where it isn't. You see, the circumstances prove it.


Consider the crucifixion, the next day was the Feast of Unleavened Bread which would be a Sabbath Day. Now if sunset was when the sabbath started then how could Jesus be embalmed all evening?


That shows you that the night of Jesus Death was not a sabbath. Further the account shows that the next day at sunrise would be when the Sabbath (Feast of Unleavened Bread) did start.
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Old 09-13-2018, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,912 posts, read 5,002,235 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeWillCome2040 View Post
Back to you, show me where it isn't. You see, the circumstances prove it.


Consider the crucifixion, the next day was the Feast of Unleavened Bread which would be a Sabbath Day. Now if sunset was when the sabbath started then how could Jesus be embalmed all evening?


That shows you that the night of Jesus Death was not a sabbath. Further the account shows that the next day at sunrise would be when the Sabbath (Feast of Unleavened Bread) did start.


That is absurd, Jesus walked in all the Holy days, Jesus said himself,'' Do not think I come to abolish the laws of Moses, I DID NOT COME TO ABOLISH BUT TO FULFILL.''


Fulfilling the laws is KEEPING THE LAWS.


We don't have to wonder, Jesus explained and detailed the facts saying that WHOEVER wont keep the laws and THEN they go and teach others not to keep the laws will be the LEAST in the kingdom of heaven.'' Are you teaching people not to keep the laws and worship system of God and his son?


You don't believe Jesus? How in the world would somebody keep the laws of the Sabbaths when YOU have changed the Sabbath?


How are we supposed to believe or learn from somebody who doesn't believe Jesus himself?

Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 09-13-2018 at 02:30 PM..
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Old 09-13-2018, 02:26 PM
 
1,259 posts, read 298,110 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
That is absurd, Jesus walked in all the Holy days, Jesus said himself,'' Do not think I come to abolish the laws of Moses, I DID NOT COME TO ABOLISH BUT TO FULFILL.''


Fulfilling the laws is KEEPING THE LAWS.


But we don't have to wonder, Jesus explained and detailed the facts saying that WHOEVER wont keep the laws and THEN they go and teach others not to keep the laws will be the LEAST in the kingdom of heaven.'' Are you teaching people not to keep the laws and worship system of God and his son?


But you don't believe Jesus, and how in the world would somebody keep the laws of the Sabbaths when YOU have changed the Sabbath?


How are we supposed to believe or learn from somebody who doesn't believe Jesus himself?

What part of what I said are saying is absurd?
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Old 09-13-2018, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,912 posts, read 5,002,235 times
Reputation: 1521
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeWillCome2040 View Post
What part of what I said are saying is absurd?
That you think that somehow you can change God's ways and laws is absurd.


That is what I keep telling people. YOU are the temple, and YOU DECIDE whether your word is above God's word, apparently, you think you have found a way to change God's laws but you haven't.
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