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It doesn't matter what "a Calvinist" says. Same goes for any other anonymous, faceless person.
It matters what the Bible says.
That's like saying "a Republican" says blah blah blah (fill in the blank) about his interpretation of the Declaration of Independence, and that automatically makes it accurate and factual.
Just read the original document(s) yourself. Screw the interpretations by others.
Last edited by Thoreau424; 09-17-2018 at 04:27 PM..
It doesn't matter what "a Calvinist" says. Same goes for any other anonymous, faceless person.
It matters what the Bible says.
.... and what the Bible says is that God hated Esau.
I find it interesting at Matthew 23:35 Jesus is speaking about all the righteous blood spilled going back to: Abel.
Jesus does start counting righteous mankind with either Adam nor Eve and does Not include their first born Cain.
So, God apparently discounts Adam and Eve and Cain, and starts with the founding of the world of mankind with Abel.
.... and what the Bible says is that God hated Esau.
Hate is a strong word, and your interpretation. But even if that was true, whoopdy-doo. What's so great about Esau? Reminds me of the "strain a gnat" stuff.
.................. God loves the people who goes into hell , but cannot do anything for these people because they rejected God`s provision for their protection which is Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ , and without God`s protection then the Holy Angels of God have no choice but to take the souls and spirits of people to the other place which is hell ......................See it is Justice that people go to hell
I would agree that God loved Jesus, and the day righteous Jesus died, Jesus went to hell according to Acts 2:27.
Since the dead (like Jesus was) are in biblical hell, then the Bible's hell is Not the other place but simply the grave.
Biblical hell is just the temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead until resurrected out of biblical hell.
Resurrected or ' delivered up ' out of hell as per Revelation 20:13-14.
So, the dead in hell are awakened from death's sleep when they are resurrected out of biblical hell.
Then, emptied-out hell is cast vacant into that ' second death ' for vacated hell.
I suppose one could say it is Justice that people go to biblical hell because death is the price tag sin pays- Romans 6:23.
So, it is death, and Not death plus something else. No post-mortem penalty as death frees or acquits a person as per Romans 6:7.
Kind of like a governor can pardon a person so the crime charges do Not stick, Jesus can pardon a person so the sin charges do Not stick.
That is why Jesus' ransom covers MANY as per Matthew 20:28.
Hate is a strong word, and your interpretation. But even if that was true? Whoopdy-doo. What's so great about Esau?
Esau sold his 'birthright' (to be in Messiah's line or linage) for a pot of stew.
True, in Scripture the word hate or hatred has shades of meaning including loving someone to a lesser degree.
After all, we are to love God first before all else, so in that sense of hate we are to love everything else to a lesser degree.
I suppose one could say it is Justice that people go to biblical hell because death is the price tag sin pays- Romans 6:23.
So, it is death, and Not death plus something else. No post-mortem penalty as death frees or acquits a person as per Romans 6:7.
Kind of like a governor can pardon a person so the crime charges do Not stick, Jesus can pardon a person so the sin charges do Not stick.
If death acquits everyone, then how can they be sentenced to a second death?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4
That is why Jesus' ransom covers MANY as per Matthew 20:28.
Many as in all humanity except Christ. For He is the ransom for all (1 Tim.2:4-6). That is, all humanity, except the one sinless One.
Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."
Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."
Paul makes a parallel between "the many" who were condemned & sinners and those who will be justified & constituted just.
“In Romans 5, the justification is co-extensive with the condemnation. Since all share in one, all share in the other. If only a certain portion of the human race had partaken of the sin of Adam, only a certain portion would partake of the justification of Christ. But St. Paul affirms all to have been involved in one, and all to be included in the other.”
Therefore there is salvation after death. And corrective punishment.
Jesus shall see of the travail of His soul & be satisfied. Not satisfied a little bit, but the vast majority fried alive forever.
"He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities." (Isa.53:11).
For how "many" (not few) did He "bear their iniquities"? All.
"Paul declares, however, that the effects of Christ's obedience are far greater for mankind than the effect of Adam's fall. For the third (5:15) and fourth (5:17) times in this chapter he makes explicit use of the 'qal wahomer' ("from minor to major") form of argument that is commonly used in rabbinic literature, expressed by "much more"...cf. earlier use at 5:9,10...And as in the case of the typology previously used (5:14), here, too, the form of the argument is antithetical. The grace of God extended to humanity in the event of Christ's death has abounded "for the many" (5:15b), which corresponds to the "all" of 5:12,18. The free gift given by God in Christ more than matches the sin of Adam and its effects; it exceeds it..."
"Contrasts are also seen in the results of the work of each. Adam's trespass or disobedience has brought condemnation (κατάκριμα, 5:18); through his act many were made sinners (5:19). Christ's "act of righteousness" results in "justification of life" (δικαίωσιν ζωῆς) for all (5:18). The term δικαίωσιν can be translated as "justification" (NIV, NRSV; but RSV has "acquittal") - the opposite of "condemnation". The word ζωῆς ("of life") is a genitive of result, providing the outcome of justification, so that the phrase may be rendered "justification resulting in life". 108
108. BDAG 250 (δικαίωσιν): "acquittal that brings life". The construction is variously called a "genitive of apposition", an "epexegetical genitive" or "genitive of purpose". Cf. BDF 92 (S166). The meaning is the same in each case: justification which brings life."
"The universality of grace in Christ is shown to surpass the universality of sin. Christ's "act of righteousness" is the opposite of Adam's "tresspass" and equivalent to Christ's"obedience", which was fulfilled in his being obedient unto death (Phil 2:8). The results of Christ's righteous action and obedience are "justification resulting in life for all persons"...5:18...and "righteousness" for "many" (5:19). The term "many" in 5:19 is equivalent to "all persons", and that is so for four reasons: (1) the parallel in 5:18 speaks in its favor; (2) even as within 5:19 itself, "many were made sinners" applies to all mankind, so "many will be made righteous" applies to all; (3) the same parallelism appears in 5:15, at which "many" refers to "all"; and (4) the phrase "for many" is a Semitism which means "all", as in Deutero-Isaiah 52:14; 53:11-12; Mark...10:45; 14:24; Heb.12:15. The background for Paul's expression is set forth in Deutero-Isaiah, where it is said that "the righteous one"...the Lord's servant, shall make "many" to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their sins ...Isa.53:11..."
"It is significant, and even astounding, that justification is here said to be world-embracing. Nothing is said about faith as a prerequisite for justification to be effective, nor about faith's accepting it."
(Paul's Letter To The Romans: A Commentary, Arland J. Hultgren, Eerdmans, 2011, 804 pg, p.227, 229)
Isn’t it interesting that people in this forum can say the most vile things and terrible lies about the Creator yet are silenced and threatened with expulsion for calling made up religious cults non Christians.
Isn’t it interesting that people in this forum can say the most vile things and terrible lies about the Creator yet are silenced and threatened with expulsion for calling made up religious cults non-Christians.
What a world we live in.
You have no authority to call any Christian a non-Christian or part of a cult. That is presumptuous and arrogant in the extreme. You assume the status of God when you presume to make such judgments. That is why they are prohibited and sanctioned here.
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Serious Blasphemy
