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Old 09-17-2018, 09:16 AM
 
16,062 posts, read 9,228,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arleigh View Post
There are an abundance of "believers' that choose to ignore the things Jesus taught ,and in their lives Jesus has no actual Lordship.
What would you call it?

Jesus provided the Holy Spirit to teach in His place, but some choose to usurp that place for them selves .
What would you call it?
Every single one of us will give account for our lives and all we have said ,Jesus said so.

Jesus provided an infallible teacher of God's will, the Holy Sprit ,but certain men circumvent God's design , what would you call it?
We must also be careful because Satan gives his spirit to men also and they think it is God's and the test is agreement with scripture if the spirit is form God or Satan.
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Old 09-17-2018, 09:19 AM
 
Location: between three Great Lakes.
1,630 posts, read 1,783,139 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
We must also be careful because Satan gives his spirit to men also and they think it is God's and the test is agreement with scripture if the spirit is form God or Satan.
Whew! So glad we women are exempt from the scary influence of "de debbil!"
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Old 09-17-2018, 09:20 AM
 
16,062 posts, read 9,228,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenstyle View Post
Whew! So glad we women are exempt from the scary influence of "de debbil!"
That is one of his ways of influencing women, making them think he doesn't.


Mind you men seem to be easier to influence.
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Old 09-17-2018, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,542 posts, read 6,992,023 times
Reputation: 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by arleigh View Post
There are an abundance of "believers' that choose to ignore the things Jesus taught ,and in their lives Jesus has no actual Lordship.
What would you call it?

Jesus provided the Holy Spirit to teach in His place, but some choose to usurp that place for them selves .
What would you call it?
Every single one of us will give account for our lives and all we have said ,Jesus said so.

Jesus provided an infallible teacher of God's will, the Holy Sprit ,but certain men circumvent God's design , what would you call it?
In this forum I would call it "Christianity." I often specify "Institutional Christianity" or "Evangelical Christianity" when I think it important to do so.

The point for you to consider is that the name does not automatically insure conformity to the teachings of Christ.
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Old 09-17-2018, 09:53 AM
 
73 posts, read 25,053 times
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Moderator cut: In this forum, those who identify as Christians are Christians, and it is against the forum rules to suggest that some are not "really" Christian based on one's own view of what constitutes Christianity.

My question was more to bring the point of calling into question the tendency of some self-described Evangelical Christians to presume that those in Mainline Denominations (or Catholics or Orthodox Christians whose Churches were in fact representative of normative Christianity from the 2nd Century until the time of the Reformation 1400 years later) are taught a watered-down Gospel or cannot possibly be truly saved Christians. This especially applies to those who believe that all Christians, even those who are already sincere believers in Christ, must point to a singular experience of being Born Again, a term which I am familiar has its basis in certain scriptures but is not necessarily doctrinally valid in the form in which it is presented by Evangelical Churches today.

Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 09-17-2018 at 10:44 AM.. Reason: Removed statement against forum rules
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Old 09-17-2018, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,451 posts, read 31,853,456 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oihamad View Post
It goes without saying that there are those who refer to themselves as Christians who do not genuinely believe in or follow the teachings of Christianity or the Scriptures. These exist in Evangelical and Mainline denominations as well as Catholic and Orthodox Churches; no one church has a monopoly on them. My question was more to bring the point of calling into question the tendency of some self-described Evangelical Christians to presume that those in Mainline Denominations (or Catholics or Orthodox Christians whose Churches were in fact representative of normative Christianity from the 2nd Century until the time of the Reformation 1400 years later) are taught a watered-down Gospel or cannot possibly be truly saved Christians. This especially applies to those who believe that all Christians, even those who are already sincere believers in Christ, must point to a singular experience of being Born Again, a term which I am familiar has its basis in certain scriptures but is not necessarily doctrinally valid in the form in which it is presented by Evangelical Churches today.
Personally I have never heard an evangelical claim someone is not saved simply because they were "taught watered down Gospel". You can have a bad teacher, but it is your personal relationship that matters. Some false teachers can successfully indoctrinate others to believe false gospel, and that can make it hard for them to find that relationship. Some false teachers insist you do not even need a relationship with Christ because everyone is automatically saved. It is unfortunate, but the point is that simply attending certain denominations, or not attending any does not in itself determine a personal salvation.
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Old 09-17-2018, 05:03 PM
 
37,477 posts, read 25,217,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Personally I have never heard an evangelical claim someone is not saved simply because they were "taught watered down Gospel". You can have a bad teacher, but it is your personal relationship that matters. Some false teachers can successfully indoctrinate others to believe false gospel, and that can make it hard for them to find that relationship. Some false teachers insist you do not even need a relationship with Christ because everyone is automatically saved. It is unfortunate, but the point is that simply attending certain denominations, or not attending any does not in itself determine a personal salvation.
All this controversy and division is the result of the mistaken notion that WE have anything to do with our salvation. We do NOT! Jesus is entirely responsible for it and we have nothing to do with it. The various churches have identified themselves on the basis of preferred "precepts and doctrines of men" instead of Christ alone enabling membership drives and exclusivity that is actually counter to Christ's desire and expectation for "ecclesia." It is a travesty of human perversion.
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Old 09-17-2018, 09:14 PM
 
911 posts, read 187,768 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oihamad View Post
I commonly see posts or other statements made by Evangelical Christians questioning whether those in Mainline denominations such as the Presbyterian Church, the Episcopal Church, the ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America), the Methodist Church, or the United Church of Christ are truly Christians or saved. There is often an implication that these churches have strayed far from Biblical teaching and doctrine and Christian Orthodoxy and that these churches preach an overly watered down Christianity which speaks more about doing good things within a culturally/politically correct context. I attend a Presbyterian Church and have evangelical leanings myself but see these critiques of mainline denominations as missing the mark as the Presbyterian and Methodist services I have attended preach the Gospel in its full, unfiltered form. Do Evangelicals view these those in Mainline Protestant denominations as saved if they have professed faith in Christ, and if not, what do they feel these churches are doing wrong?

These places are pantheistic, culture driven centers that pander to modern sentiment and not consistent with sound biblical doctrine.
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Old 09-17-2018, 10:26 PM
 
73 posts, read 25,053 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SumTingy View Post
These places are pantheistic, culture driven centers that pander to modern sentiment and not consistent with sound biblical doctrine.
Really? Can you prove that statement by referring to personal experience, study, or confessional statements by these denominations? Have you ever attended any of them? Or are you just repeating something that a minister told you because of their disagreements?



The Presbyterian Church uses the Westminister Confession of Faith as its standard which is pretty intensely Calvinist. All of the aforementioned churches have a history that dates back hundreds of years and are much closer in form to the Orthodox Standards of Christianity as presented in the first few centuries of its practice than any Evangelical group today which are often ego-driven and prone to fall apart as fast as they are formed (witness the rise and fall of Mark Driscoll of Mars Hill Church in Seattle). I am not knocking Evangelical Churches, for they have many positives. However, they owe a debt they are unwilling to acknowledge to what came before them. The Methodist Church and the ELCA (it's in the name of the denomination for goodness sakes) are fundamentally evangelical in outlook and are only grouped as mainline in comparison to the churches that exist now which lean to the right of them.


Think about what you say before you say it.
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Old 09-17-2018, 10:39 PM
 
73 posts, read 25,053 times
Reputation: 165
Also to deconstruct

Pantheist=worshiping multiple deities; this is false, Mainline Denominations are Christian. Period.

Culture-driven=Every church reflects the culture of its members. Culture is not something we have six days a week and then don't have the seventh. But if you mean by this, do Modern Standards of morality drive these churches, then in terms of doctrine no. Maybe for individual members, but not for the bodies as a whole.

Pander to modern sentiment=Or perhaps more willing to thoughtfully consider the context of Biblical teachings in the milieu in which they were written (which also reflected the sentiment of that day) and seeking to be inclusive of all believers in Christ in the present day. The Evangelical Megachurches seem to love pandering to modern culture, though with their heavy reliance on Rock bands during services.

Not consistent with sound biblical doctrine=the mainline churches doctrines were largely formulated 200-500 years ago and generally follow a confessional nature consistent with Orthodox Christian teaching. The Bible is taught as the Word of God and Studied and taken seriously as such. Members are consistently encouraged to study scripture throughout their life. If anything Evangelical Churches seem to be the furthest from sound Biblical Doctrine, rejecting infant baptism, oftentimes but not always the Eucharist, do not know the Apostles Creed or Nicene Creed, place little importance on the teachings of the early Church Fathers who many in these churches do not know about, often no guiding doctrine or confession that governs their entire church, and read the Bible without examining the background of the books written or their historical context.
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