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Old 03-02-2019, 03:55 PM
 
1,382 posts, read 487,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
If one reads that account in context then one would find that the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is attributing to Satan what is clearly the work of G-d...This is what the context says...
Or if conversely, if one attributes to God, what is the work of Satan. Although, to be fair, Satan is subject to the power of God. While Satan appears to be pivotal in the mystery of creation, still, one needs to flee from the father of lies, even if he is an apparent necessity in the yin and yang physics of creation.
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Old 03-02-2019, 06:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
You're referring to what Jesus called blasphemy against the Holy Spirit which He specified as accusing Him (Jesus) of having an unclean Spirit (Mark 3:30). The scribes had accused Jesus of casting out demons by the power of Beelzebul (Satan), the ruler of demons (Mark 3:22).

The sin which Jesus said shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come (Matthew 12:32), the sin which never has forgiveness and is an eternal sin (Mark 3:29), the sin which will not be forgiven him (Luke 12:10) is in context, according to Jesus, attributing His casting out demons as being done by the power of Satan rather than by the power of the Holy Spirit. That is the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. That is the sin which will not be forgiven because it is tantamount to rejecting Jesus as the Messiah.
Matthew 12:31 "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32] "Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

Mark 3:28 "Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; 29] but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin " 30] because they were saying, "He has an unclean spirit."

Luke 12:10 "And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him.
The unforgivable or unpardonable sin was one specific sin and is not murder or any sin other than blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (Matthew 12:31) which was accusing Jesus of having an unclean spirit by which He was able to cast out demons. This was tantamount to rejecting Jesus while He was on the earth by knowledgeable religious leaders - the Scribes, Pharisees and Sadducees, who despite the evidence, rejected Jesus' claims regarding Himself.
Michael Heiser - What is Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit? (Naked Bible Podcast)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBL_ttQO1Go
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Old 03-02-2019, 06:31 PM
 
Location: minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Michael Heiser - What is Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit? (Naked Bible Podcast)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBL_ttQO1Go
Who does this include? Is it as simple as someone calling hellfire evil or good?
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Old 03-02-2019, 07:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
Who does this include? Is it as simple as someone calling hellfire evil or good?
Dr. Heiser, as did I, explained that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is a very specific sin of attributing to Satan what is the work of God. The Scribes had accused Jesus of casting out demons by the power of Satan (Mark 3:22). That's it. That is the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Dr. Heiser does bring up how the casting out demons by Jesus is related to the coming of the kingdom and that by assigning God's works to Satan you are assigning God's kingdom to Satan and therefore rejecting the kingdom of God.

So, no. It doesn't have anything to do with someone calling hellfire evil or good. And it has nothing to do with blaspheming in general. Jesus had said that all sins and whatever blasphemes they utter will be forgiven (Mark 3:28). The exception is attributing what God has done to Satan as the Scribes and Pharisees did because it amounts to rejection of Christ. But, and as Heiser, points out, this doesn't mean that someone who has committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit can't repent and turn to the only means of salvation and thereby be saved. If a person who has blasphemed against the Holy Spirit does have a change of mind and turns to Jesus then he will be forgiven.

The video is only 13 minutes long if anyone cares to listen to it.
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Old 03-02-2019, 07:20 PM
 
Location: minnesota
6,352 posts, read 2,127,207 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Dr. Heiser, as did I, explained that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is a very specific sin of attributing to Satan what is the work of God. The Scribes had accused Jesus of casting out demons by the power of Satan (Mark 3:22). That's it. That is the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Dr. Heiser does bring up how the casting out demons by Jesus is related to the coming of the kingdom and that by assigning God's works to Satan you are assigning God's kingdom to Satan and therefore rejecting the kingdom of God.

So, no. It doesn't have anything to do with someone calling hellfire evil or good. And it has nothing to do with blaspheming in general. Jesus had said that all sins and whatever blasphemes they utter will be forgiven (Mark 3:28). The exception is attributing what God has done to Satan as the Scribes and Pharisees did because it amounts to rejection of Christ. But, and as Heiser, points out, this doesn't mean that someone who has committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit can't repent and turn to the only means of salvation and thereby be saved. If a person who has blasphemed against the Holy Spirit does have a change of mind and turns to Jesus then he will be forgiven.

The video is only 13 minutes long if anyone cares to listen to it.
I did listen to it and he was specific then got non specific with rejecting God.
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Old 03-02-2019, 07:27 PM
 
21,903 posts, read 16,711,964 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
I did listen to it and he was specific then got non specific with rejecting God.
He was simply giving a thorough explanation of what blasphemy against the Holy Spirit entails. It is rejecting Jesus. But in the specific context in which Jesus spoke of it, it involved accusing Jesus of casting out demons by the power of Satan instead of by the power of the Holy Spirit.
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Old 03-03-2019, 05:31 AM
 
8,671 posts, read 3,109,191 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
He was simply giving a thorough explanation of what blasphemy against the Holy Spirit entails. It is rejecting Jesus. But in the specific context in which Jesus spoke of it, it involved accusing Jesus of casting out demons by the power of Satan instead of by the power of the Holy Spirit.
More like cherrypicking in order to deflect from the fact that Satan was a murderer in the beginning.

So yeah, a murderer is unforgivable.
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Old 03-03-2019, 06:44 AM
 
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One such example of the unforgivable is avshalom's murderous rebellion.

Hence the name peace, then sudden destruction.
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Old 03-03-2019, 11:04 AM
 
20,421 posts, read 9,840,546 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Dr. Heiser, as did I, explained that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is a very specific sin of attributing to Satan what is the work of God. The Scribes had accused Jesus of casting out demons by the power of Satan (Mark 3:22). That's it. That is the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Dr. Heiser does bring up how the casting out demons by Jesus is related to the coming of the kingdom and that by assigning God's works to Satan you are assigning God's kingdom to Satan and therefore rejecting the kingdom of God.

So, no. It doesn't have anything to do with someone calling hellfire evil or good. And it has nothing to do with blaspheming in general. Jesus had said that all sins and whatever blasphemes they utter will be forgiven (Mark 3:28). The exception is attributing what God has done to Satan as the Scribes and Pharisees did because it amounts to rejection of Christ. But, and as Heiser, points out, this doesn't mean that someone who has committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit can't repent and turn to the only means of salvation and thereby be saved. If a person who has blasphemed against the Holy Spirit does have a change of mind and turns to Jesus then he will be forgiven.

The video is only 13 minutes long if anyone cares to listen to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
I did listen to it and he was specific then got non specific with rejecting God.


I listened to it as well, not impressed with Heiser or his opinions.

Blasphemy has nothing to do with rejecting Christ.
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Old 03-03-2019, 11:13 AM
 
20,421 posts, read 9,840,546 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
I listened to it as well, not impressed with Heiser or his opinions.

Blasphemy has nothing to do with rejecting Christ.
To say that God would do something evil, like that of eternal punishment is Blasphemy.
However, there are no eternal sins, therefore there is no sin which cannot be forgiven.
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