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Old 10-02-2018, 09:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
yes, because John and the Lord Jesus was the ONLY two who was ALIVE to God on the planet at that time. these are the anointed one. meaning both was "BORN" with the Spirit, the Holy Spirit from birth.

that oil in Zec 4:12 is symbolic of the Holy Spirit. again both had the Spirit from birth.

understand, "DEAD" men cannot witness. and they two was the only two men ALIVE on the planet, meaning having the Spirit, the OIL of Zec 4:12

PICYJAG.



PS tommorrow, Lord's willing we will compare, and explain the two witness from Revelation 11. it's getting late here. see you tommorrow.



Yes, late here as well. I look forward to more discussion. I think we have digressed a bit but in an important way.
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Old 10-03-2018, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeWillCome2040 View Post
Yes, late here as well. I look forward to more discussion. I think we have digressed a bit but in an important way.
GINOLJC, to all.
First I don't believe we have digressed a bit. we have not left the main subject, only that the two witness must be put in the proper place of before or after Pentecost. this is important to A. the timeline, and B. the correct order in relationship to the First resurrection. C. who or what the two witness are.

as said, I'm incline to believe that they are John the Baptist and the Lord Jesus. I believe the scriptures make this clear. the the wave sheaf offering it was a sheaf made from the firstfruits of the early barley harvest.

so I agree that the two witness can be identified as such. it was to be accompanied with a sacrifice of a lamb without blemish. This was the early barley harvest. The first ripe barley was harvested and waved before the LORD to be acceptable to him.

and the Lord Jesus is that sacrificial Lamb without blemish. and he was accepted by the LORD.

for Isaiah 55:4 states, "Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people”.


Revelation 11:3 "And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth".

and that power is the Holy Spirit which both the Lord Jesus and John the Baptist had.

so this FIRST barley came before Pentecost, as did the Lord.

PICYJAG
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Old 10-03-2018, 09:33 AM
 
1,259 posts, read 297,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
GINOLJC, to all.
First I don't believe we have digressed a bit. we have not left the main subject, only that the two witness must be put in the proper place of before or after Pentecost. this is important to A. the timeline, and B. the correct order in relationship to the First resurrection. C. who or what the two witness are.

as said, I'm incline to believe that they are John the Baptist and the Lord Jesus. I believe the scriptures make this clear. the the wave sheaf offering it was a sheaf made from the firstfruits of the early barley harvest.

so I agree that the two witness can be identified as such. it was to be accompanied with a sacrifice of a lamb without blemish. This was the early barley harvest. The first ripe barley was harvested and waved before the LORD to be acceptable to him.

and the Lord Jesus is that sacrificial Lamb without blemish. and he was accepted by the LORD.

for Isaiah 55:4 states, "Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people”.


Revelation 11:3 "And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth".

and that power is the Holy Spirit which both the Lord Jesus and John the Baptist had.

so this FIRST barley came before Pentecost, as did the Lord.

PICYJAG



The Barley Harvest is also know as the Feast of Firstfruits which occurs before Pentecost (Wheat harvest).


Go and write down each of the candlesticks from Rev chapters 2 and 3 in the order presented as if on a menorah. When you read this you will find that where TWO are Gathered the Lord is in the MIDST of them (Jesus Christ). So remove each candlestick where God finds disfavor with them. Two will remain, Philadelphia and Smyrna. You will see they are the middle sticks at each end of the Menorah. The Lord would be in the midst of them.
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Old 10-03-2018, 10:00 AM
 
1,259 posts, read 297,925 times
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You see the Two Witnesses ARE also the 144,000 mentioned in the Book of Revelation.


Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.



Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.


More specifically, they are the Barley Harvest.
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Old 10-03-2018, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeWillCome2040 View Post
The Barley Harvest is also know as the Feast of Firstfruits which occurs before Pentecost (Wheat harvest).


Go and write down each of the candlesticks from Rev chapters 2 and 3 in the order presented as if on a menorah. When you read this you will find that where TWO are Gathered the Lord is in the MIDST of them (Jesus Christ). So remove each candlestick where God finds disfavor with them. Two will remain, Philadelphia and Smyrna. You will see they are the middle sticks at each end of the Menorah. The Lord would be in the midst of them.
first thanks for the reply

second, Matthew 18:16 "But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established".

Deuteronomy 19:15 "One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

and again, a witness must be alive to tell the truth.

PICYJAG.
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Old 10-03-2018, 10:53 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
first thanks for the reply

second, Matthew 18:16 "But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established".

Deuteronomy 19:15 "One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

and again, a witness must be alive to tell the truth.

PICYJAG.

Let's look at what happens to those two witnesses that you are calling Jesus and John the Baptist:


Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
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Old 10-03-2018, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,671 posts, read 1,542,459 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeWillCome2040 View Post
You see the Two Witnesses ARE also the 144,000 mentioned in the Book of Revelation.


Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.



Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.


More specifically, they are the Barley Harvest.
First thanks for the reply.

second, we must disagree with that assessment, "the two witness are the 144,000.
let us glean from our notes: we want go into detail, ok.

lets examine the the record again,
Revelation 11:3 "And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
"they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days". a thousand two hundred and threescore days = 1260 divided by 365 = 3 years and one half. the exact years of Jesus public preaching ministry. and also John's public ministry. Cloths in sackcloth, meaning preaching repentance. sackcloth means penitence. the first thing out of John the Baptist mouth, "REPENT". Scripture, Matthews 3:1 "In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. 3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight". Jesus, Scripture, Matthews 4:16 "From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand". both preach repentance, hence the sackcloth spoken of.



Revelation 11:4 "These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth".

"THE POWER"
to understand this we need to go to the book of Zechariah chapter 4. the Power is the Holy Spirit. read all of chapter 4. lets look at these verses 11-14. "Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? 12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? 13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. 14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth. Anointed ones: who are they?. what do anointed means. W.E. vines Dictionary: anointing,1. Verb,G218, aleipho The material used was either oil, or ointment. as in Luke 7:38, Luke 7:46. anointing, 2. Verb,G5548, chrio is more limited in its use than No. 1; it is confined to "sacred and symbolical anointings;" of Christ as the "Anointed" of God, Luke 4:18; Acts 4:27; Acts 10:38, and Heb 1:9, where it is used metaphorically in connection with "the oil of gladness." The title Christ signifies "The Anointed One," The word (Christos) is rendered "(His) Anointed" in Acts 4:26, RV. Once it is said of believers, 2Cor 1:21. Chrio is very frequent in the Sept., and is used of kings, 1Sam 10:1, and priests, Exod 28:41, and prophets, 1Kgs 19:16. Among the Greeks it was used in other senses than the ceremonial, but in the Scriptures it is not found in connection with secular matters.
so the connection is the "oil" and the oil represent the Holy Spirit. so the two witness is endowed with the Holy
Spirit. Lest bring that point out. First the Anointing of witness #1, (John the baptizer), Scripture: Luke 1:11 "And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. 12 And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. 13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. 14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. 16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. 17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord". so here in this scripture, not only do we have the Anointing of John with the Holy Spirit, but also the connection with the spirit of Elijah. and as Zechariah said "that stand by the Lord of the whole earth", Luke states, "For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord". Connection #1. is made.

now the Anointing of witness #2, (the Lord Jesus). at his birth the same as John, and at his baptism also. Scripture: Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. Matthews 3:16 "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased”. Lastly, Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised". now the connection to Moses. Deuteronomy 18:14 "The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken". more connections. both was laws givers, both had a water connection, just as John and Elijah had water connections. Moses and the children of Israel was baptized in water, thru the red sea. Jesus and his Children are baptize in water with the Holy Ghost, which is LIVING WATER, (see the woman at the well in John 4). Mose turned water into blood. Jesus turned water into wine, (red like blood). both are leaders, both are always before GOD. we can get the better picture of this connection at Jesus transfiguration. Matthews 17:2 "And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. so now the connection is made with Jesus and Moses.

PICYJAG

PS I have much more connection of John and Elijah, and the Lord Jesus with Moses.
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Old 10-03-2018, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
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This should put an end to the mystery. Revelation 11:6 "These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will”. this is symbolic language of Moses and Elijah, I believe most will agree.

John the Baptist - the Elijah to come.
Matthew 17:9 "And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
Matthew 17:10 "And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
Matthew 17:11 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
Matthew 17:12 "But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
Matthew 17:13 "Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Question time, “can the Lord Jesus Lie? No, then Elijah has already come. STOP and let that sink in. If Elijah has already come then it is definitely before Pentecost.

and the scripture clearly says that John was the Elijah to come. can't get any clearer than that.

PICYJAG
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Old 10-03-2018, 12:48 PM
 
1,259 posts, read 297,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
First thanks for the reply.

second, we must disagree with that assessment, "the two witness are the 144,000.
let us glean from our notes: we want go into detail, ok.

lets examine the the record again,
Revelation 11:3 "And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
"they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days". a thousand two hundred and threescore days = 1260 divided by 365 = 3 years and one half. the exact years of Jesus public preaching ministry. and also John's public ministry. Cloths in sackcloth, meaning preaching repentance. sackcloth means penitence. the first thing out of John the Baptist mouth, "REPENT". Scripture, Matthews 3:1 "In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. 3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight". Jesus, Scripture, Matthews 4:16 "From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand". both preach repentance, hence the sackcloth spoken of.



Revelation 11:4 "These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth".

"THE POWER"
to understand this we need to go to the book of Zechariah chapter 4. the Power is the Holy Spirit. read all of chapter 4. lets look at these verses 11-14. "Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? 12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? 13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. 14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth. Anointed ones: who are they?. what do anointed means. W.E. vines Dictionary: anointing,1. Verb,G218, aleipho The material used was either oil, or ointment. as in Luke 7:38, Luke 7:46. anointing, 2. Verb,G5548, chrio is more limited in its use than No. 1; it is confined to "sacred and symbolical anointings;" of Christ as the "Anointed" of God, Luke 4:18; Acts 4:27; Acts 10:38, and Heb 1:9, where it is used metaphorically in connection with "the oil of gladness." The title Christ signifies "The Anointed One," The word (Christos) is rendered "(His) Anointed" in Acts 4:26, RV. Once it is said of believers, 2Cor 1:21. Chrio is very frequent in the Sept., and is used of kings, 1Sam 10:1, and priests, Exod 28:41, and prophets, 1Kgs 19:16. Among the Greeks it was used in other senses than the ceremonial, but in the Scriptures it is not found in connection with secular matters.
so the connection is the "oil" and the oil represent the Holy Spirit. so the two witness is endowed with the Holy
Spirit. Lest bring that point out. First the Anointing of witness #1, (John the baptizer), Scripture: Luke 1:11 "And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. 12 And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. 13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. 14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. 16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. 17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord". so here in this scripture, not only do we have the Anointing of John with the Holy Spirit, but also the connection with the spirit of Elijah. and as Zechariah said "that stand by the Lord of the whole earth", Luke states, "For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord". Connection #1. is made.

now the Anointing of witness #2, (the Lord Jesus). at his birth the same as John, and at his baptism also. Scripture: Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. Matthews 3:16 "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased”. Lastly, Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised". now the connection to Moses. Deuteronomy 18:14 "The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken". more connections. both was laws givers, both had a water connection, just as John and Elijah had water connections. Moses and the children of Israel was baptized in water, thru the red sea. Jesus and his Children are baptize in water with the Holy Ghost, which is LIVING WATER, (see the woman at the well in John 4). Mose turned water into blood. Jesus turned water into wine, (red like blood). both are leaders, both are always before GOD. we can get the better picture of this connection at Jesus transfiguration. Matthews 17:2 "And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. so now the connection is made with Jesus and Moses.

PICYJAG

PS I have much more connection of John and Elijah, and the Lord Jesus with Moses.

We do disagree here if you don't believe the 144,000 are also the Two Witnesses. Also, the sackcloth and ashes is a reference to appearing to have been consumed by FIRE. It symbolizes humility.


I think we are at a stopping point between us for what I can tell you further until that is understood as the rest would not make sense.
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Old 10-03-2018, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,671 posts, read 1,542,459 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeWillCome2040 View Post
We do disagree here if you don't believe the 144,000 are also the Two Witnesses. Also, the sackcloth and ashes is a reference to appearing to have been consumed by FIRE. It symbolizes humility.


I think we are at a stopping point between us for what I can tell you further until that is understood as the rest would not make sense.
first thanks for the response.
second, The scriptures don't lie, the Lord Jesus words are true. I cannot make you believe, only point out the scriptural facts.

PICYJAG.
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