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Universalists undoubtedly have very strong opinions concerning faith and spirituality. Many Born again Bible believing Christians also have strong faith and base their arguments on Scripture. So beside large disagreements in doctrine, what are other differences?
The first thing that comes to mind is behavior. I firmly believe many Universalism because of lifestyle choices.
"From Him the all comes, through Him the all exists, and in Him the all ends..."
There is no wiggle room: the ta panta begins in our God, the ta panta ends in our God!
The all things recorded in Rev. 5.13 demonstrates the exact same outcome! The entire creation encapsulating the heavens, the earth, and the underworld, ultimately sings in antiphonal worship to our glorious God of glory!
"It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him. And you..."
Rev. 20
"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
Essentially universalism is the last ploy of the doctrine of devils.
Universalists undoubtedly have very strong opinions concerning faith and spirituality. Many Born again Bible believing Christians also have strong faith and base their arguments on Scripture. So beside large disagreements in doctrine, what are other differences?
The first thing that comes to mind is behavior. I firmly believe many Universalism because of lifestyle choices.
Agree or disagree?
For example(s)...?
I firmly believe that those who espouse eternal torment and vilification of gays because "God said..." are ignorant, and/or stupid, bigots.
Posts 131 & 134 were merged into this thread. We already had 4 active threads about Universalism, two of them started by the same member. We have a history of merging similar threads.
Perfect example to show the flawed Universalism argument. All these responses are built upon conjecture and personal opinion but not backed up with any Scripture.
We Elect shall now wait the tantrum responses
There are plenty of threads related to subject on a scriptural and/or historical base. Some of them I am responsible for:
The original argumentation here isn't based on scripture either but on false assumptions and logical fallacies, so why making the effort to refer to scripture?
#1 various Nazis were more or less Catholics or could have repented before death, whereas many of their victims would have went straight from Auschwitz to an everlasting Auschwitz - does this sound just? There are plenty of similar examples, a murderer kills a hooker, spends life in prison and repents, the hooker goes to hell, is this just?
#2 free will is debatable
#3 did Jesus speak about hell or something different? What did the Jews understand by Gehenna back then? Since Jesus is the first person in the Bible speaking about hell at all, isn't it likely that He meant something different, more in line with the Old Testament?
#4 see #3, Hell is entirely absent from the Old Testament, except as an indifferent place for all dead where the dead rest in sleep (Sheol, Hades).
#5 Jesus was the ransom for all people, so all people are his property, Paul persecuted Christians when Christ converted him, he did not accept Christ on his own.
#6 yes it is, but the question is, is it scriptural? I would say so.
#7 this is ridicilous, saving all people is not loving, but everlastingly burning them in an oven is loving? See #1
#8 the good news is that all people will be saved, how is it good news if 1% are saved and 99% burn forever? As ridicilious as #7
#9 is this not the mindset of Christians, if you are Christian you would not do so, unbelievers don't care about hell anyway.
#10 see #9, Universalists I know are usually more serious, pious and conservative than the protestant mainstream, at least in my country. Stupid argumentation anyways, what if Islam or Catholicism is right, you can not live as Muslim and Catholic and Protestant to surely avoid hell.
#11 this is a missrepresentation, see #9 and #10
#12 this is not true, Universalism is unique to Christianity, see Islam. Eastern Religions to not believe in ressurection, so you can't compare them. How do Satanists believe in the salvation of all men when they worship evil? Atheists usually believe in no afterlife at all.
#13 you could ask this a Calvinist as well, those who are determined to believe must hear the Gospel I guess, I'm not sure if evangelism is scriptural in this age.
All the references to hell are speaking of the outer court of Gentiles which is called the outer court of darkness that he sends people to. There is still salvation in the court, and we are shown people who are saved when they burn. The fire will test all men and many men will stand in the fire with their works and not burn, but the majority are tested in the fire and they watch their works burn, and then they burn, AND STILL it say they alone will be saved, but only as one who has been through the fire.
Jesus said you could speak against him and be forgiven, Jesus said you can decide not to keep ANY of the law and you can EVEN teach others not to keep the law AND STILL be in the kingdom of heaven...
WE are shown what the kingdom of heaven is with 3 sections and Jesus speaks of the least and the greatest. There is a scripture about the sexual immoral and liars and thieves saying they will never enter into the kingdom of heaven, but that scripture is speaking of the Zoe, higher kingdom, the liars and thieves are still saved in the outer court where they will not be allowed in the Zoe kingdom but they are still saved....
WE know the design of the kingdom of heaven because the Temple was made in the design of the kingdom so that we may know the 3 sections of heaven and who goes there. Paul tells us that the Temple is built specifically to shadow and mirror what the kingdom is, and so we know it's design.
So beside large disagreements in doctrine, what are other differences?
The first thing that comes to mind is behavior. I firmly believe many Universalism because of lifestyle choices.
Agree or disagree?
Fully disagree (i.e. if I'm understanding your choice of the phrase "lifestyle choices" the way you intended). Those who believe that God will ultimately reconcile all of us to Him are pretty strongly united in believing that this is because He loves us so much and realizing that if He loves us so much, we should also love one another. Loving one another requires one's "lifestyle choices" to be unselfish. Unselfish people choose to behave in a way that benefits their fellow human beings. It also involves a conscious effort to see the best in people, even in people who have chosen different paths, for the simple reason that there is a realization that God loves all of us equally and doesn't want us condemning one another.
All the references to hell are speaking of the outer court of Gentiles which is called the outer court of darkness that he sends people to. There is still salvation in the court, and we are shown people who are saved when they burn. The fire will test all men and many men will stand in the fire with their works and not burn, but the majority are tested in the fire and they watch their works burn, and then they burn, AND STILL it say they alone will be saved, but only as one who has been through the fire.
Jesus said you could speak against him and be forgiven, Jesus said you can decide not to keep ANY of the law and you can EVEN teach others not to keep the law AND STILL be in the kingdom of heaven...
WE are shown what the kingdom of heaven is with 3 sections and Jesus speaks of the least and the greatest. There is a scripture about the sexual immoral and liars and thieves saying they will never enter into the kingdom of heaven, but that scripture is speaking of the Zoe, higher kingdom, the liars and thieves are still saved in the outer court where they will not be allowed in the Zoe kingdom but they are still saved....
WE know the design of the kingdom of heaven because the Temple was made in the design of the kingdom so that we may know the 3 sections of heaven and who goes there. Paul tells us that the Temple is built specifically to shadow and mirror what the kingdom is, and so we know it's design.
"For the Son of Man is Lord of the Shabbat"
More appropriately I believe reverence and respect for proper pronunciation is needed so that a person may understand the blessings of the seventh day
One only need to read from the hebrew to find the promise of the honorable bond of peace.
Shemot(exodus) 20; {the names} He was with God in the beginning
but the seventh day is a Shabbat to the Lord, your God; you shall perform no labor, neither you, your son, your daughter, your manservant, your maidservant, your beast, nor your stranger who is in your cities. יוְי֨וֹם הַשְּׁבִיעִ֜י שַׁבָּ֣ת | לַֽיהֹוָ֣ה אֱלֹהֶ֗יךָ לֹ֣א תַֽעֲשֶׂ֣ה כָל־מְלָאכָ֡ה אַתָּ֣ה | וּבִנְךָ֣־וּ֠בִתֶּךָ עַבְדְּךָ֨ וַֽאֲמָֽתְךָ֜ וּבְהֶמְתֶּ֗ךָ וְגֵֽרְךָ֙ אֲשֶׁ֣ר בִּשְׁעָרֶ֔יךָ:
שַׁבָּ֣ת
For [in] six days the Lord made the heaven and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and He rested on the seventh day. Therefore, the Lord blessed the Shabbat day and sanctified it. יאכִּ֣י שֵֽׁשֶׁת־יָמִים֩ עָשָׂ֨ה יְהֹוָ֜ה אֶת־הַשָּׁמַ֣יִם וְאֶת־הָאָ֗רֶץ אֶת־הַיָּם֙ וְאֶת־כָּל־אֲשֶׁר־בָּ֔ם וַיָּ֖נַח בַּיּ֣וֹם הַשְּׁבִיעִ֑י עַל־כֵּ֗ן בֵּרַ֧ךְ יְהֹוָ֛ה אֶת־י֥וֹם הַשַּׁבָּ֖ת וַֽיְקַדְּשֵֽׁהוּ:
Judges 12:6 ["And they said to him, "Say now 'Shibboleth,' " and he said "Sibboleth," and he was not prepared to pronounce it properly, and they grabbed him and slaughtered him at the fords of the Jordan; and there fell at that time of Ephriam, forty-two thousand."]
Or as i was taught in the spirit; 3s and 4s are the way of the King. The red letter is a [ה]hei.
As in the 4th yr being a holy praise after leaving the land untouched for three yrs. The fifth yr is something beyond time that can only be found given with perseverance and patience..
I don't speak Hebrew, you don't speak Hebrew, what's with the Hebrew?
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