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Old 10-02-2018, 12:05 PM
 
40,090 posts, read 26,755,929 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Here’s a funny sentence in the opening:

“It [Universalism] also teaches that if someone rejects Christ in this life, they can accept Him in the next one, no matter how immoral, evil, or anti-Christ they were.

Christianity in general teaches that a person can ”accept Christ” no matter how immoral, evil, or anti-Christ they were. Not sure, then, why that is emphasized as if it indicts Universalism as being such a terrible thing when the only difference from non-Universalist Christianity is a matter of timing. You’re all about welcoming the worst of sinners into the fold, right?
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Old 10-02-2018, 12:26 PM
 
Location: New England
32,236 posts, read 21,119,376 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Here’s a funny sentence in the opening:

“It [Universalism] also teaches that if someone rejects Christ in this life, they can accept Him in the next one, no matter how immoral, evil, or anti-Christ they were.

Christianity in general teaches that a person can ”accept Christ” no matter how immoral, evil, or anti-Christ they were. Not sure, then, why that is emphasized as if it indicts Universalism as being such a terrible thing when the only difference from non-Universalist Christianity is a matter of timing. You’re all about welcoming the worst of sinners into the fold, right?
Not unless they believe like bibleans. Jesus never taught a belief, he taught a way. A way that followed(not to earn anything) is a life of abounding abundance of grace and favor.
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Old 10-02-2018, 01:32 PM
 
20,419 posts, read 9,837,567 times
Reputation: 1678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Here’s a funny sentence in the opening:

“It [Universalism] also teaches that if someone rejects Christ in this life, they can accept Him in the next one, no matter how immoral, evil, or anti-Christ they were.

Christianity in general teaches that a person can ”accept Christ” no matter how immoral, evil, or anti-Christ they were. Not sure, then, why that is emphasized as if it indicts Universalism as being such a terrible thing when the only difference from non-Universalist Christianity is a matter of timing. You’re all about welcoming the worst of sinners into the fold, right?
Nah, he doesn't want company, it's an isolated religion once you accept it.
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Old 10-02-2018, 03:55 PM
Status: "Living rent-free in camp’s head, too." (set 7 hours ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
16,365 posts, read 8,905,753 times
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Katz, that conflicts with, “Without faith, it is impossible to please God”, no?
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Old 10-02-2018, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,964 posts, read 22,131,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Katz, that conflicts with, “Without faith, it is impossible to please God”, no?
You're going to have to give me a little more than that to go on, Jimmie. I've posted quite a bit on this thread. Tell me more specifically what I said that you have a problem with and I'll try to explain myself.
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Old 10-02-2018, 06:39 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,964 posts, read 22,131,923 times
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"Problem #5: Universalism eliminates the need to accept Christ. Even though Jesus cited the need for people to believe in Him, if everyone gets saved, why bother? Universalists ultimately believe there is no need for a person to follow Christ. Even blasphemy cannot damn someone, so why bow to the Nazarene?"

No, it doesn't eliminate the need to accept Christ. As I explained in my prior post, there are billions who have never ever heard of Jesus Christ. How in the world can someone "accept" teachings they've never been exposed to? Because the playing field was not a level one here on earth, God in His mercy has provided a means by which everyone actually has the opportunity to accept Christ before just condemning them to an eternity of torment. And I also already explained that blasphemy against the Holy Ghost is the one and only "unforgivable sin" but how most people will never even be put in a position where they could commit this sin.
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Old 10-02-2018, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,964 posts, read 22,131,923 times
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"Problem #6: Universalism is deterministic. If salvation is universal and automatic, then ultimately there is no free will. Your eternity is “determined” whether you like it or not. (It’s no accident that Eastern religions that teach there is no hell, also teach that there is no free will.)"

I'm starting to think that in an effort to make his point, the author of this article started getting desperate and just decided to repeat himself. This "problem" is virtually identical to "Problem #2" so there is no need for me to address it a second time. Salvation is not "automatic." Technically, assuming that God mentioned "the unforgivable sin" because some may actually commit it, it's not even universal. In practice, I believe it's almost universal for the simple reason that the Bible says in three different places that ultimately every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ. Now some (many perhaps) will not have their sins paid for by Christ's Atonement. If they refuse to accept His sacrifice on their behalf, they will pay for their own sins. They just won't pay for them forever. They'll pay for them throughout the Millennium, after those who were raised at the First Resurrection are already in Heaven. And when the debt has been paid, the punishment will cease and they'll be raised at the Second Resurrection, by which time they, too, will acknowledge Christ as their Savior.
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Old 10-02-2018, 07:00 PM
Status: "Living rent-free in camp’s head, too." (set 7 hours ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
16,365 posts, read 8,905,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Katz, that conflicts with, “Without faith, it is impossible to please God”, no?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
You're going to have to give me a little more than that to go on, Jimmie. I've posted quite a bit on this thread. Tell me more specifically what I said that you have a problem with and I'll try to explain myself.
Sorry.

Quote:
Those who have accepted Christ and have repented of their sins will find themselves in a state of happiness and joy as they await their resurrection. This place is known as Paradise; it's where Jesus told the thief on the cross next to Him that He'd see him later that day. Those who have not accepted Christ and have not repented of their sins will find themselves in a state of mental anguish, realizing that they have sinned, and believing that it's too late for them to ever be reconciled to God. This state can rightly be called "Hell," but it need not be eternal in nature. The spirits of those in Paradise can interact with the spirits of those in Hell and are continuing even today to share the good news of Jesus Christ's gospel. When a person who is in anguish over his sins accepts the gospel, he is released from the "Hell" he has been in and can instead look forward to the resurrection and a life in Heaven. Those in Hell who have repented and accepted Christ before His return to earth will rise in the first resurrection and be welcomed as resurrected beings in Heaven. Those who have not, will remain in Hell for the duration of the Millennium. Once they have been punished for their sins and have come to the knowledge that they took the hard road in refusing Christ's grace, they will also be "saved." Thus, God's plan incorporates both justice and mercy.
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Old 10-02-2018, 07:23 PM
 
20,419 posts, read 9,837,567 times
Reputation: 1678
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Katz, that conflicts with, “Without faith, it is impossible to please God”, no?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
You're going to have to give me a little more than that to go on, Jimmie. I've posted quite a bit on this thread. Tell me more specifically what I said that you have a problem with and I'll try to explain myself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Sorry.


Quote:
Those who have accepted Christ and have repented of their sins will find themselves in a state of happiness and joy as they await their resurrection. This place is known as Paradise; it's where Jesus told the thief on the cross next to Him that He'd see him later that day. Those who have not accepted Christ and have not repented of their sins will find themselves in a state of mental anguish, realizing that they have sinned, and believing that it's too late for them to ever be reconciled to God. This state can rightly be called "Hell," but it need not be eternal in nature. The spirits of those in Paradise can interact with the spirits of those in Hell and are continuing even today to share the good news of Jesus Christ's gospel. When a person who is in anguish over his sins accepts the gospel, he is released from the "Hell" he has been in and can instead look forward to the resurrection and a life in Heaven. Those in Hell who have repented and accepted Christ before His return to earth will rise in the first resurrection and be welcomed as resurrected beings in Heaven. Those who have not, will remain in Hell for the duration of the Millennium. Once they have been punished for their sins and have come to the knowledge that they took the hard road in refusing Christ's grace, they will also be "saved." Thus, God's plan incorporates both justice and mercy.
It appears he believes that faith is a requirement in this life, therefore, that must hold true after this life?
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Old 10-02-2018, 07:33 PM
 
20,419 posts, read 9,837,567 times
Reputation: 1678
Often times, seeing is believing!
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