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Old 10-02-2018, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
16,301 posts, read 7,680,345 times
Reputation: 1728

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
It appears he believes that faith is a requirement in this life, therefore, that must hold true after this life?
A step in the right direction here
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Old 10-02-2018, 07:59 PM
 
954 posts, read 243,636 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
"Problem #6: Universalism is deterministic. If salvation is universal and automatic, then ultimately there is no free will. Your eternity is “determined” whether you like it or not. (It’s no accident that Eastern religions that teach there is no hell, also teach that there is no free will.)"

I'm starting to think that in an effort to make his point, the author of this article started getting desperate and just decided to repeat himself. This "problem" is virtually identical to "Problem #2" so there is no need for me to address it a second time. Salvation is not "automatic." Technically, assuming that God mentioned "the unforgivable sin" because some may actually commit it, it's not even universal. In practice, I believe it's almost universal for the simple reason that the Bible says in three different places that ultimately every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ. Now some (many perhaps) will not have their sins paid for by Christ's Atonement. If they refuse to accept His sacrifice on their behalf, they will pay for their own sins. They just won't pay for them forever. They'll pay for them throughout the Millennium, after those who were raised at the First Resurrection are already in Heaven. And when the debt has been paid, the punishment will cease and they'll be raised at the Second Resurrection, by which time they, too, will acknowledge Christ as their Savior.
There is nothing in Scripture that even remotely reflects your understanding of this theology. Most likely this is from Mormon writings.

Nothing more to be said about this.
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Old 10-02-2018, 10:16 PM
 
20,450 posts, read 9,860,175 times
Reputation: 1683
Quote:
Originally Posted by SumTingy View Post
There is nothing in Scripture that even remotely reflects your understanding of this theology. Most likely this is from Mormon writings.

Nothing more to be said about this.
There is more that can be said, but you are not one to listen.
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Old 10-02-2018, 10:19 PM
 
20,450 posts, read 9,860,175 times
Reputation: 1683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
"Problem #6: Universalism is deterministic. If salvation is universal and automatic, then ultimately there is no free will. Your eternity is “determined” whether you like it or not. (It’s no accident that Eastern religions that teach there is no hell, also teach that there is no free will.)"

I'm starting to think that in an effort to make his point, the author of this article started getting desperate and just decided to repeat himself. This "problem" is virtually identical to "Problem #2" so there is no need for me to address it a second time. Salvation is not "automatic." Technically, assuming that God mentioned "the unforgivable sin" because some may actually commit it, it's not even universal. In practice, I believe it's almost universal for the simple reason that the Bible says in three different places that ultimately every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ. Now some (many perhaps) will not have their sins paid for by Christ's Atonement. If they refuse to accept His sacrifice on their behalf, they will pay for their own sins. They just won't pay for them forever. They'll pay for them throughout the Millennium, after those who were raised at the First Resurrection are already in Heaven. And when the debt has been paid, the punishment will cease and they'll be raised at the Second Resurrection, by which time they, too, will acknowledge Christ as their Savior.
I found the replies to the bloggers post quite interesting; and a couple were actually good.
In addition, I may have to read this book by Julie Ferwerda, one of the commentators:

"Raising Hell: Christianity’s Most Controversial Doctrine Put Under Fire."

Last edited by Jerwade; 10-02-2018 at 10:30 PM..
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Old 10-03-2018, 06:33 AM
 
Location: Florida
63,203 posts, read 34,429,291 times
Reputation: 10521
Quote:
Originally Posted by SumTingy View Post
13 Problems with Universalism

13 problems with Universalism. There are certainly more but this is a good start
Yes, its a start aka "the tip of the iceberg". In order to believe in it, you'll have to denounce much of the Bible, while adding more to it.
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Old 10-03-2018, 06:38 AM
 
Location: Florida
63,203 posts, read 34,429,291 times
Reputation: 10521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Salvation is not "automatic." Technically, assuming that God mentioned "the unforgivable sin" because some may actually commit it, it's not even universal.
That may be according to Mormonism, but not according to universalism.
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Old 10-03-2018, 08:07 AM
Status: "Watching America made small." (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
25,910 posts, read 13,469,145 times
Reputation: 11712
The main problem with universalism is that it removes god's Specialest Snowflakes Ever! status from fundies.


It's amusing watching them fume, fulminate, and stamp their little feet at the prospect of having to hobnob with Catholics, Jews, Muslims and atheists in heaven.
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Old 10-03-2018, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Florida
63,203 posts, read 34,429,291 times
Reputation: 10521
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
It's amusing watching them fume, fulminate, and stamp their little feet at the prospect of having to hobnob with Catholics, Jews, Muslims and atheists in heaven.


Missionaries are out in the farthest corners of the world trying to reach as many non-believers are possible, so where do you get this stomping of feet from?

PS Catholics are Christians just FYI.
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Old 10-03-2018, 08:18 AM
Status: "Watching America made small." (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
25,910 posts, read 13,469,145 times
Reputation: 11712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post


Missionaries are out in the farthest corners of the world trying to reach as many non-believers are possible, so where do you get this stomping of feet from?

PS Catholics are Christians just FYI.

You missed the point. By a mile.
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Old 10-03-2018, 08:19 AM
Status: "Waving a sign that reads John 3:16" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Walt Disney World
16,391 posts, read 8,924,600 times
Reputation: 1668
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post


Missionaries are out in the farthest corners of the world trying to reach as many non-believers are possible, so where do you get this stomping of feet from?

PS Catholics are Christians just FYI.
He knows that, but he likes to antagonize.
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