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Old 10-05-2018, 11:52 AM
 
Location: USA
3,436 posts, read 1,259,477 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Einhander View Post
I don't know. I'm confused. I have a teacher that got me into his church and it's a very casual church. But then, my relative tells me that women cannot be pastors and you have to take the bible 100 percent literally because God wouldn't want you to be confused.

My teacher says i can come to church and believe whatever I want. He said he doesn't want me to be a blind follower.

I already started reading the Bible a little bit and my thoughts are... How do I know this is true just because it's in the book?
Isa.55
[12] For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.


Should the Bible be taken 100% literally? Did the mountains and hills actually sing? Did the trees actually clap their hands?
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Old 10-05-2018, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,843 posts, read 4,976,659 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Einhander View Post
I don't know. I'm confused. I have a teacher that got me into his church and it's a very casual church. But then, my relative tells me that women cannot be pastors and you have to take the bible 100 percent literally because God wouldn't want you to be confused.

My teacher says i can come to church and believe whatever I want. He said he doesn't want me to be a blind follower.

I already started reading the Bible a little bit and my thoughts are... How do I know this is true just because it's in the book?
I have an Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties that would answer many of your questions about believing impossible things. This book points out how the bible does not contradict the big bang or evolution, or the age of this earth, it is what people assume but not necessarily what the bible is teaching.


You read Moses story of the creation and there is no question that Moses never meant for anyone to take the creation story as literal events, it was written in such a way to inform the reader that it was just a spiritual story...


What Moses had Adam doing in a 24 hour period was impossible and the author knew it was impossible, and anyone who studies the story should come to the same conclusion that it is not to be taken as literal, but spiritual....


For instance, in 24 hours, Moses had Adam naming all life, and this would take decades, and then Adam is to be tilling and harvesting so long that God looks down on him and says that he needs a helpmate and that he was lonely....


You can't till in one day, and you certainly couldn't harvest anything in a 24 hour period. Moses had Adam tilling and planting and THEN he even had many harvests from the toil of tilling and seeding. OBVIOUSLY, those 6 days of creation were not to be take as literal.


EVEN after all this, God kills Adam.
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Old 10-05-2018, 12:01 PM
 
1,183 posts, read 345,439 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post
Isa.55
[12] For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.

Should the Bible be taken 100% literally? Did the mountains and hills actually sing? Did the trees actually clap their hands?


They did in the Wizard of Oz
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Old 10-06-2018, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,671 posts, read 1,539,355 times
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this is a good topic.

I would like to address the scripture, 1 Corinthians 14:34 "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law".

is this scripture literal? yes, but is it hidden or not understood correctly, yes. these and many more scriptures are this way.

let's look close at this scripture.

#1. the apostle is not even addressing women, but the husbands of wives. what do I mean. he said "let your women keep silence in the churches". who is he really addressing?.

if I said, keep your children off the floor, who am I speaking with? ... the parent, and not the child. so I'm addressing the parent.

here in 1 Corinthians 14:34 it is the husbands who the apostle is speaking to or addressing, not the women/Wives of the husbands.

how do we know it's wives and not women of the church in general that the apostle is addressing. simple, just read the very next verse. 1 Corinthians 14:35 "And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church".

here the word "husband" is used, why? because the Greek word for women here is
G1135 γυνή gune (ǰ ï-nee') n.
1. a woman.
2. (specially) a wife.
[probably from the base of G1096]
KJV: wife, woman
Root(s): G1096

notice definition #2. only wives have husbands. so the apostle was addressing the "husbands" of the churches, but why? because they was failing in their duties as husband to TEACH their wives properly on how to conduct themselves in the house of God. this was to be taught at home before they came to church.

one last thing, if the Holy Spirit would have allowed the apostle to use the word, ,G2338, thelus, meaning "FEMALE" then game over, pack your suite case and go home, but no he didn't.

sometimes one have to look or search out words meaning and see if they are of the context.

for the Lord Jesus said, John 5:39 "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me".

and the proverb hits the nail on the head, Proverbs 25:2 "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter."

PICYJAG

next time, we'll look at the Pastor/Bishop, which the apostle Paul was and he wasn't married. Hmmmmm intresting.
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Old 10-06-2018, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,671 posts, read 1,539,355 times
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Paul the apostle, the Bishop/Pastor.

We know Paul as an apostle, but many Christian didn't know that he was a Pastor/Bishop, prophet, and teacher.

first the Biblical understanding of a Pastor. Jeremiah 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding".

ok, do our brother Paul have these qualifications? yes, 1 Corinthians 12:28 "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues". where is the term "Pastor", we'll see.

Paul the apostle, as Pastor, prophet, teacher, and Pastor/Bishop.

1 Corinthians 13:1 "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

1 Corinthians 13:2 "And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing".

in verse 2 Paul said that he had the the gift of prophecy
he just said that he is a Prophet.

and he said that he "understand all mysteries, and "all knowledge". knowledge and Understanding as Jeremiah 3:15 states.

now as a teacher. 1 Corinthians 4:17 "For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church".

so not only is the apostle an apostle, but a Pastor and Teacher, and a Prophet.

now knowing that a Pastor is the same as a Bishop, an Overseer, both are interchangeable.

which bring us the the contention of 1 Timothy 3:2 "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach".

but the problem here is that Paul don't have a wife.

so then is 1 Timothy 3:2 the apostle is speaking to a particularize group or set of persons.

which it is.

so 1 Timothy 3:2 do not apply to every, or only males, nor one that's married.

for the apostle himself was not married.

PICYJAG.
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Old 10-07-2018, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,107 posts, read 54,597,263 times
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In my experience, one attains a much richer and deeper theology if one reads the Scriptures in more ways than one. If one looks at it as merely a literal dictation by God meant to be learned by rote for the purpose of pulling out and reciting what seems to be an appropriate quotation when necessary, one's knowledge and depth of understanding will be very limited and may lead to erroneous thought and behavior patterns.

If, however, one looks at the Scriptures with a fresh and open mind, nuggets of real truth may be found therein, and further, may prompt deeper thinking and discussion about one's relationship to others and that which connects us that doesn't stop at just the words on the page.
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Old 10-07-2018, 12:21 PM
 
40,086 posts, read 26,750,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
In my experience, one attains a much richer and deeper theology if one reads the Scriptures in more ways than one. If one looks at it as merely a literal dictation by God meant to be learned by rote for the purpose of pulling out and reciting what seems to be an appropriate quotation when necessary, one's knowledge and depth of understanding will be very limited and may lead to erroneous thought and behavior patterns.

If, however, one looks at the Scriptures with a fresh and open mind, nuggets of real truth may be found therein, and further, may prompt deeper thinking and discussion about one's relationship to others and that which connects us that doesn't stop at just the words on the page.
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Old 10-07-2018, 12:28 PM
 
10,633 posts, read 2,714,882 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iam4USC View Post
Short answer........NO!

Consider the time the Bible was written and assembled. Both old and new testaments were written in a time where there average Joe was uneducated and unsophisticated. The rabbis, teachers and Christ spoke in terms that average people could understand and relate to. They used parables and stories and imagery.

That is why you can’t just pick and choose singular verses from the Bible. You have to interpret the entire text as a whole.
If that is true, then why is it so difficult for so many people to understand the bible today, people are more educated today, so it should be easy to understand.

Plus, if we cannot take certain things literally in the bible, how do we know other things are literal, like Jesus being crucified, rising into heaven on the 3rd day, walking on water, bringing someone back from the dead, the 10 commandments, etc etc I could go on and on...maybe these things are not to be taken literally?
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Old 10-07-2018, 01:13 PM
 
21,883 posts, read 16,702,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
If that is true, then why is it so difficult for so many people to understand the bible today, people are more educated today, so it should be easy to understand.
To thoroughly understand the Bible you have to be 'educated' in the context in which the Bible was written. You have to know the culture and world view of the Biblical writers. Without knowing how the ancient Biblical writers thought, without knowing their world view, there is much that you will not grasp.

Quote:
Plus, if we cannot take certain things literally in the bible, how do we know other things are literal, like Jesus being crucified, rising into heaven on the 3rd day, walking on water, bringing someone back from the dead, the 10 commandments, etc etc I could go on and on...maybe these things are not to be taken literally?
Jesus didn't rise to heaven on the third day. He was resurrected on the third day. He didn't ascend to heaven until forty days after his resurrection.

As for what you're asking, I thought I explained that pretty well in post #8.
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Old 10-07-2018, 01:24 PM
 
Location: NSW
2,741 posts, read 1,867,835 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
To thoroughly understand the Bible you have to be 'educated' in the context in which the Bible was written. You have to know the culture and world view of the Biblical writers. Without knowing how the ancient Biblical writers thought, without knowing their world view, there is much that you will not grasp.



Jesus didn't rise to heaven on the third day. He was resurrected on the third day. He didn't ascend to heaven until forty days after his resurrection.

As for what you're asking, I thought I explained that pretty well in post #8.
That basically means you need to take an ancient history course in order to understand the bible.
The bible should thus be instructing readers to do this, before embarking on reading it.
Maybe the biblical scholars should have put a disclaimer on it, and instructed those to do an old English course for those reading the 1611 King James Version as well. (which is most of the Evangelicals)
I believe in most of the New Testament, but a lot of the Old is storytelling and parables imo.
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