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Old 10-06-2018, 10:59 AM
 
28,122 posts, read 12,487,255 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
Ozzy, have you ever thought about what the heck Jesus actually did that the disciples saw as ascending and disappearing into Heaven? Thanks
Wasnt there a handful of people who literally saw Jesus ascend? Im assuming it was nothing spectacular, just a man rising up into the sky, once he got high enough, they could not see him anymore.
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Old 10-06-2018, 11:17 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
32,986 posts, read 26,225,374 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
Ok, could we turn this more to what took place...I mean...magic isn't magic...
it has an explanation...it just seems like magic since some don't know how it took place,
scientifically.
Everything goes back to science and being able to be explained...ok maybe stretching what we don't know exactly yet...but still, the possibility of 'magic', or supernatural events,
can be made comprehensible, at least.

As said, Miracles seem like miracles to those that don't understand how they took place.
Does this group think there is such a thing as matter?
Maybe I'm talking to the wrong group, wouldn't be my first x!

Thanks Mike for all the verses.
Miss Hepburn, everything does not go back to science. Science concerns itself with the natural. With what can be observed and tested and falsified. The supernatural falls outside the purview of science. God is supernatural and beyond the realm of science.

Nor is the exercise of divine omnipotence related to 'magic.' They are two different things. Magic can be defined as the use of means such as charms or spells that are believed to have supernatural power over natural forces. God does not employ charms or spells to achieve his purposes.

There are other realms of existence besides the physical realm in which we exist. There are supernatural beings. . .not only Yahweh, but angels both fallen and elect, and demons, and who knows what else which has not been revealed to us.

Jesus' ascension into heaven may have been possible by an ability that the resurrection body has which our mortal bodies do not, or it may have been because since Jesus is God he was able to ascend.
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Old 10-06-2018, 11:21 AM
 
12,918 posts, read 16,800,082 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
Ozzy, have you ever thought about what the heck Jesus actually did that the disciples saw as ascending and disappearing into Heaven? Thanks
They saw him leaving from their presence basically. If you read the story they didn't even recognize him after he was resurrected. And they were kind of suspicious of the "new" Jesus. It's allegory.
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Old 10-06-2018, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Florida -
10,213 posts, read 14,777,653 times
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I don't see the point of always trying to undermine or 'explain away' the miracles of God ... just so non-believers and scoffers can comfortably fit them into a physically explainable context (?)

Isaiah 55:8-9
“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
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Old 10-06-2018, 11:43 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
32,986 posts, read 26,225,374 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
But Jesus also tried to show the apostles on the boat at that time, that THEY TOO could walk on water, as long as their faith was strong enough.
Jesus could walk on water, and quiet the wind, because he is God. Peter could only walk on water so long as he kept his faith focused on Jesus on that occasion. Now Jesus did give the apostles the ability to perform miracles as a means of attracting peoples attention in order to gain a hearing for the gospel. I guarantee you that in this life you personally will never be able to walk on water no matter how much 'faith' you muster up. It's not gong to happen.

Quote:
Besides that, other times when Jesus did miracles, like raising someone from the dead, he basically says you all CAN do these things too and even much greater things than I did, moving mountains if you want them to move was one, so it may be more than Jesus displaying his power.
In John 14:12 Jesus was speaking specifically to, and about, the apostles when he told them that they would be able to do greater works than the works they had seen him do because he was going to the Father. It was not a statement directed to all believers.

And the reference to greater works was not to greater works in quality, but to quantity. The apostles were given the ability to heal the sick and to raise the dead. But the works that Jesus did were done during the course of his three year public ministry. The apostolic age lasted until the last of the apostles died. During that apostolic age, the apostles performed more miracles than Jesus did during his three year ministry, and more people became believers during the apostolic period than during Jesus' three year ministry.

We cannot raise the dead as Jesus and the apostles did. And once again, I guarantee you that you will never literally move a mountain no matter how much faith you muster up. It's not going to happen.
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Old 10-06-2018, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA, now.
21,020 posts, read 19,267,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMusic View Post
We are bound to an earthly realm and bound
by the laws of physics while in our mortal bodies.
Goodie, let the talks begin now, thank you, Rain!
Jesus and Peter proved we are NOT bound by the physical....the spiritual trumps physical laws, no?
Now we could say ....knowledge trumps Phys Laws, also; Knowledge is not magic...is not divine, nor mystical or miraculous!!

Quote:
There is so much going on right next to us that we cannot see!
Thank u for bringing that up ...if everyone stopped now and paused ...realizing that 100 UHF, VHF, AM, FM
waves/ frequencies are passing thru your roof and ceiling , thru you into the ground...that would
be a nice start of expanding our awareness...like exercising at the gym for muscles.
I would like someone to say..."What about Cosmic and gamma rays...and 100? There's lots more."
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Old 10-06-2018, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA, now.
21,020 posts, read 19,267,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
They saw him leaving from their presence basically. If you read the story they didn't even recognize him after he was resurrected. And they were kind of suspicious of the "new" Jesus. It's allegory.
What is allegory and metaphor to one person, is fact ...tho, distorted by perception, to another.
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Old 10-06-2018, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA, now.
21,020 posts, read 19,267,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
But Jesus also tried to show the apostles on the boat at that time, that THEY TOO could walk on water, as long as their faith was strong enough.

Besides that, other times when Jesus did miracles, like raising someone from the dead, he basically says you all CAN do these things, too and even much greater things than I did, moving mountains if you want them to move was one, so it may be more than Jesus displaying his power.
Bless you, rstevens.
I just got to this hours later. xxxoooo
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Old 10-06-2018, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA, now.
21,020 posts, read 19,267,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Wasn't there a handful of people who literally saw Jesus ascend?
I'm assuming it was nothing spectacular, just a man rising up into the sky.
Once he got high enough, they could not see him anymore.
YES, to ans your first ques.
In 2018...would it not be 'spectacular' to see your neighbor levitate in front
of your eyes...even if you were drunk or high?.....not that that was what Jesus did.
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Old 10-06-2018, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA, now.
21,020 posts, read 19,267,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Miss Hepburn, everything does not go back to science. Science concerns itself with the natural. With what can be observed and tested and falsified. The supernatural falls outside the purview of science. God is supernatural and beyond the realm of science.
I like where you're going with this...BUT, science now has come to a point that what was unexplainable paranormal and supernatural...is way more explainable now.

Quote:
Nor is the exercise of divine omnipotence related to 'magic.' They are two different things.
Magic can be defined as the use of means such as charms or spells that are believed to have supernatural power over natural forces.
God does not employ charms or spells to achieve his purposes.
I'm sorry. I didn't define my terms....parlor tricks have nothing to do with magic.
We are not talking about Penn and Teller here.


Quote:
There are other realms of existence besides the physical realm in which we exist.
There are supernatural beings. . .not only Yahweh, but angels both fallen and elect, and demons, and who knows what else which have not been revealed to us.
Agreed...is that what we are talking about? Other realms of existence?


Quote:
Jesus' ascension into heaven may have been possible by an ability that the resurrected body has which our mortal bodies do not, or it may have been because since Jesus is God he was able to ascend.
Good deduction...
We are made in God's image and we are to do greater things than Jesus...do you think that was an example to us, ie... his leaving this earth by way of ascending...or disappearing?
Again, showing us what we were destined to be able to do, thus,
erasing the self imposed limits we place on ourselves?
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