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Old 10-08-2018, 10:44 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland area
277 posts, read 98,565 times
Reputation: 113

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For the longest time I've been trying to figure out why God was mad at King David. I finally think I got it!

Again, the anger of the Lord was kindled against israel, and he incited David against them, saying, " Go, number Israel and judah. " - 2 Samuel 24:1

Then Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel. - 1 Chronicles 21:1

God and Satan both clearly tell "incite" David to number Israel. Satan does not see man as his equal. David should have disobeyed Satan because Satan does not represent the Lord. Always stand up to the Devil. Disobeying God is a good thing if your also disobeying Satan. Again, Satan does not represent the Lord. Satan is cursed by God from Genesis to Revelation.

The census itself was not the issue as God himself tells David to take a census. The issue was that David listened to the Devil, and did not come to his senses, and walk away from Satan. God has cursed Satan and sadly David listened to the wicked will of the accursed one.

Some Jews say that it is wrong to take a census of the Children of Israel. I fail to see the logic in that belief. Don't you want to know the number of people in your family?

I debated if I was going to post this in the Jewish forum but I ultimately settled on the Christian forum because, generally speaking Rabbinical Judaism does not see Satan as accursed by God. But, the Ethiopian Jews(Beta Israel) have the Book of Enoch in their bible. The Book of Enoch deals with Fallen Angels. The rabbinical Jews De facto recognise the Book of Enoch because they recognise the Ethiopian Jews as Jews. It is a conundrum that the Chief Rabbis of Rabbinic Judaism cannot reconcile.
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Old 10-09-2018, 06:01 AM
 
Location: central Florida
981 posts, read 356,240 times
Reputation: 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
For the longest time I've been trying to figure out why God was mad at King David. I finally think I got it!

Again, the anger of the Lord was kindled against israel, and he incited David against them, saying, " Go, number Israel and judah. " - 2 Samuel 24:1

Then Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel. - 1 Chronicles 21:1

God and Satan both clearly tell "incite" David to number Israel. Satan does not see man as his equal. David should have disobeyed Satan because Satan does not represent the Lord. Always stand up to the Devil. Disobeying God is a good thing if your also disobeying Satan. Again, Satan does not represent the Lord. Satan is cursed by God from Genesis to Revelation.

The census itself was not the issue as God himself tells David to take a census. The issue was that David listened to the Devil, and did not come to his senses, and walk away from Satan. God has cursed Satan and sadly David listened to the wicked will of the accursed one.

Some Jews say that it is wrong to take a census of the Children of Israel. I fail to see the logic in that belief. Don't you want to know the number of people in your family?

I debated if I was going to post this in the Jewish forum but I ultimately settled on the Christian forum because, generally speaking Rabbinical Judaism does not see Satan as accursed by God. But, the Ethiopian Jews(Beta Israel) have the Book of Enoch in their bible. The Book of Enoch deals with Fallen Angels. The rabbinical Jews De facto recognise the Book of Enoch because they recognise the Ethiopian Jews as Jews. It is a conundrum that the Chief Rabbis of Rabbinic Judaism cannot reconcile.
Your interpretation is somewhat skewed. Here's why;

The devil provides temptation to sin, but it isn't the temptation to sin that's punished. The act of sin is judged.

The Bible provides frequent examples that God's strength is made perfect in human weakness - His wisdom comes into sharp relief when compared to human folly and pride. Therefore God does not condone power in numbers. Consider the story of Gideon.

When attacking an enemy of Israel, Gideon was advised by God to cut the numbers of his army to 300. This number is ordinarily considered to be insufficient to successfully combat an army of much greater number. God's purpose was to multiply the effect of Gideon's skeleton crew so as to give victory to the small group.

There are many such stories, chief being the deliverance of the Hebrews from the bondage of Egypt. At the pinnacle of its power Egypt could not be defeated in any way. Financially militarily and culturally Egypt was the greatest power on earth, yet God destroyed the nation without a single Hebrew raising his or her hand in anger or violence.

The power of God is not made perfect in numbers, neither is faith justified by counting worldly goods.

Therefore the census was an act of sin and rebellion and lack of faith in God who had been a constant help to David throughout his life. It should also be noted that when David came to the realization of the meaning of God's judgment He preferred to be punished by God rather than to be delivered into the hand of man.

God is strangely merciful even in the midst of judgment. Man is not.

We live in perilous times. Repentance for our sins and wickedness is not a thing to be postponed. Now is the time to repent.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
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Old 10-09-2018, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Chicagoland area
277 posts, read 98,565 times
Reputation: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choir Loft View Post
Your interpretation is somewhat skewed. Here's why;

The devil provides temptation to sin, but it isn't the temptation to sin that's punished. The act of sin is judged.

The Bible provides frequent examples that God's strength is made perfect in human weakness - His wisdom comes into sharp relief when compared to human folly and pride. Therefore God does not condone power in numbers. Consider the story of Gideon.

When attacking an enemy of Israel, Gideon was advised by God to cut the numbers of his army to 300. This number is ordinarily considered to be insufficient to successfully combat an army of much greater number. God's purpose was to multiply the effect of Gideon's skeleton crew so as to give victory to the small group.

There are many such stories, chief being the deliverance of the Hebrews from the bondage of Egypt. At the pinnacle of its power Egypt could not be defeated in any way. Financially militarily and culturally Egypt was the greatest power on earth, yet God destroyed the nation without a single Hebrew raising his or her hand in anger or violence.

The power of God is not made perfect in numbers, neither is faith justified by counting worldly goods.

Therefore the census was an act of sin and rebellion and lack of faith in God who had been a constant help to David throughout his life. It should also be noted that when David came to the realization of the meaning of God's judgment He preferred to be punished by God rather than to be delivered into the hand of man.

God is strangely merciful even in the midst of judgment. Man is not.

We live in perilous times. Repentance for our sins and wickedness is not a thing to be postponed. Now is the time to repent.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
I don't disagree but, God himself did incite David to take a census. So I don't see eye to eye entirely.
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Old 10-09-2018, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Mars City
5,091 posts, read 2,142,356 times
Reputation: 7505
Some might say that most or all of us have listened to Satan at some point. Hearing his voice or "guidance" isn't wrong in and of itself, just as hearing some hate-filled rap from a vehicle passing by doesn't mean we are intentionally seeking it out and listening to it.
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Old 10-09-2018, 04:38 PM
 
Location: US
27,962 posts, read 15,050,737 times
Reputation: 1741
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
For the longest time I've been trying to figure out why God was mad at King David. I finally think I got it!

Again, the anger of the Lord was kindled against israel, and he incited David against them, saying, " Go, number Israel and judah. " - 2 Samuel 24:1

Then Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel. - 1 Chronicles 21:1

God and Satan both clearly tell "incite" David to number Israel. Satan does not see man as his equal. David should have disobeyed Satan because Satan does not represent the Lord. Always stand up to the Devil. Disobeying God is a good thing if your also disobeying Satan. Again, Satan does not represent the Lord. Satan is cursed by God from Genesis to Revelation.

The census itself was not the issue as God himself tells David to take a census. The issue was that David listened to the Devil, and did not come to his senses, and walk away from Satan. God has cursed Satan and sadly David listened to the wicked will of the accursed one.

Some Jews say that it is wrong to take a census of the Children of Israel. I fail to see the logic in that belief. Don't you want to know the number of people in your family?

I debated if I was going to post this in the Jewish forum but I ultimately settled on the Christian forum because, generally speaking Rabbinical Judaism does not see Satan as accursed by God. But, the Ethiopian Jews(Beta Israel) have the Book of Enoch in their bible. The Book of Enoch deals with Fallen Angels. The rabbinical Jews De facto recognise the Book of Enoch because they recognise the Ethiopian Jews as Jews. It is a conundrum that the Chief Rabbis of Rabbinic Judaism cannot reconcile.
Satan works for G-d...
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Old 10-09-2018, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
28,479 posts, read 15,441,696 times
Reputation: 11396
There is some 3-D chess going on here.

Notice that even though David sinned, he wasn't punished... unlike his sin with Bathsheba where he and his family took the hit for his sin.

Who was punished? Israel was punished. Why?

Go back to the previous chapters. They had much success in war, and they forgot who was in charge. They were so full of themselves that they were inducting themselves into their own hall of fame at the end of chapter 23. What's the first few words of chapter 24...

2 Samuel 24:1 - Now again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and it incited David against them to say, "Go, number Israel and Judah."

David wasn't God's target - Israel was. God just used David and Satan as the vehicle to punish them.
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Old 10-09-2018, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,319 posts, read 1,217,633 times
Reputation: 1410
Gods people are as the sand, they cannot be numbered by man.
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Old 10-09-2018, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland area
277 posts, read 98,565 times
Reputation: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowdog View Post
Gods people are as the sand, they cannot be numbered by man.
If I want to count the sand there is nothing wrong with that.
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Old 10-09-2018, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,319 posts, read 1,217,633 times
Reputation: 1410
Sigh

Last edited by cowdog; 10-09-2018 at 07:07 PM.. Reason: Not worth it
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Old 10-10-2018, 05:19 PM
 
10,538 posts, read 15,593,251 times
Reputation: 11852
Notice that even though David sinned, he wasn't punished... unlike his sin with Bathsheba where he and his family took the hit for his sin.

Sooo... being told to your face that your son will pay for your sin and, later, seeing that happen, is NOT a punishment? You have children? How much of torment is in this?

David laments the death of his favourite son: "O my son Absalom, my son, my son Absalom! Would I had died instead of you, O Absalom, my son, my son!"
Is it not a punishment to be a ruler branded by sin? Conspiring to kill a husband of a one night stand woman?
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