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Old 10-28-2018, 12:07 AM
 
9,280 posts, read 3,152,241 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
So this is false?

Luke 24

25 And He (Jesus) said to them, “O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?” 27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

Exactly....
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Old 10-28-2018, 01:49 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
9,288 posts, read 5,495,693 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1 View Post
Are you really that blind? Seriously, can you not read with comprehension Acts chapters 19-21? Paul was on trial for his life with the Jewish High Court, for LIES being told about him, namely that he DIDN'T still worship in the manner of his fathers, ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB, which included every aspect of the Torah/instructions. Just him presenting himself to the court, since he was a Roman citizen and under no obligation to do so, means he still was part of the Jewish faith. His confession that he STILL worshipped in the manner of his fathers, coincided with him being RITUALLY cleansed, bringing offerings, taking vows, and presenting himself in Jerusalem on what would have had to have been one of the 3 main feasts, ALL of which was prescribed by Torah, occurred near the end of his life and ministry. Meaning, he was still a Jew, still obeyed Torah, and you have sided with his accusers by believing otherwise. But, you are in good company as most of the harlot's daughter's believe likewise. Never let the facts interfere with your opinion seems to be their motto as near as I can tell. Acts is plain, as well as several other chapters. Blessings....
Why did Paul write that his being a Pharisee was like rubbish then? Can you not read and comprehend that his life as a Pharisee was no longer worth anything once he met Christ?

Show us where Paul wrote ANYTHING bragging about being Jewish. The Jerusalem Jews called him before them because there were many who thought Paul wasn’t really a Jew at all. They “sentenced” him to spend the time and money to take the Nazarene vows so he would APPEAR more Jewish.

You have an extremely cultish religion.
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Old 10-28-2018, 02:01 AM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,834 posts, read 4,973,776 times
Reputation: 1510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1 View Post
Are you really that blind? Seriously, can you not read with comprehension Acts chapters 19-21? Paul was on trial for his life with the Jewish High Court, for LIES being told about him, namely that he DIDN'T still worship in the manner of his fathers, ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB, which included every aspect of the Torah/instructions. Just him presenting himself to the court, since he was a Roman citizen and under no obligation to do so, means he still was part of the Jewish faith. His confession that he STILL worshipped in the manner of his fathers, coincided with him being RITUALLY cleansed, bringing offerings, taking vows, and presenting himself in Jerusalem on what would have had to have been one of the 3 main feasts, ALL of which was prescribed by Torah, occurred near the end of his life and ministry. Meaning, he was still a Jew, still obeyed Torah, and you have sided with his accusers by believing otherwise. But, you are in good company as most of the harlot's daughter's believe likewise. Never let the facts interfere with your opinion seems to be their motto as near as I can tell. Acts is plain, as well as several other chapters. Blessings....
Good post.
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Old 10-28-2018, 02:06 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
9,288 posts, read 5,495,693 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1 View Post
That is utter nonsense. He's in every page of it, mostly hidden in plain sight, not so hidden in certain books. His life, death and resurrection was the witness of the Torah, which is why He is the Torah made flesh, or visible. Just because they didn't speak of Him, doesn't mean they weren't aware after His appearance, who He was. Every aspect of the Passover Seder, for instance, clearly points to Him. Blessings...
Real Jews disagree with your premise that Jesus was in the Scripture. Virtually every verse you can find in the OT was never ever accepted by Jews then and especially now as having anything to do with Jesus. It was only after the gospel writers and Paul began reinterpreting the OT to put Jesus into it that it got its start. And Paul was trying to convert people—-initially Jews. There is nothing wrong with reinterpreting Scripture. Jesus did so Himself.

You have a strange kind of cultish religion that tries to be both Christian and Jewish. It’s disastrous as you describe it. I am a Christian and I live in the same house with my Jewish daughter-in-law. We have celebrated Passover at her parents home. To them Jesus was a misguided but good-hearted rabbi. He doesn’t show up anywhere in their Torah.

I think I’ll trust real Jews for their view of the OT, and real Jesus followers for their interpretation of the new.
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Old 10-28-2018, 02:07 AM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,834 posts, read 4,973,776 times
Reputation: 1510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
Why did Paul write that his being a Pharisee was like rubbish then? Can you not read and comprehend that his life as a Pharisee was no longer worth anything once he met Christ?

Show us where Paul wrote ANYTHING bragging about being Jewish. The Jerusalem Jews called him before them because there were many who thought Paul wasn’t really a Jew at all. They “sentenced” him to spend the time and money to take the Nazarene vows so he would APPEAR more Jewish.

You have an extremely cultish religion.
This is why you can't be taken seriously, but why don't you slap up Acts 21 and explain where you have a problem. Not to mention the fact of Paul telling you more than once that he is a Pharise, he shows who he is and proves that he never left Judaism and never stopped being a Pharisee.

Warden, what you do is deny the fact of Christianity being a legal sect of Judaism.

What year was it when Christians rejected the Sabbaths and feasts of Messiah Warden?

Will you try and pass off a denial of history as if the first Gentile converts didn't accept the Sabbaths and feasts of Messiah?

WHAT YEAR WAS IT WHEN CHRISTIANS WENT BACK TO PAGANISM.

That is the same year they left Judaism.

Do you understand the most basic fundamentals of a religion?
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Old 10-28-2018, 02:14 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
9,288 posts, read 5,495,693 times
Reputation: 4048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
Good post.
Quote:
Jews for Jesus is one branch of a wider movement called Messianic Jews. Members of this movement are not accepted as Jewish by the broader Jewish community, even though some adherents may have been born Jewish and their ritual life includes Jewish practices. While an individual Jew could accept Jesus as the messiah and technically remain Jewish — rejection of any core Jewish belief or practice does not negate one’s Jewishness — the beliefs of messianic Jews are theologically incompatible with Judaism.
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/art...e-about-jesus/
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Old 10-28-2018, 02:24 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
9,288 posts, read 5,495,693 times
Reputation: 4048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
This is why you can't be taken seriously, but why don't you slap up Acts 21 and explain where you have a problem. Not to mention the fact of Paul telling you more than once that he is a Pharise, he shows who he is and proves that he never left Judaism and never stopped being a Pharisee.

Warden, what you do is deny the fact of Christianity being a legal sect of Judaism.

What year was it when Christians rejected the Sabbaths and feasts of Messiah Warden?

Will you try and pass off a denial of history as if the first Gentile converts didn't accept the Sabbaths and feasts of Messiah?

WHAT YEAR WAS IT WHEN CHRISTIANS WENT BACK TO PAGANISM.

That is the same year they left Judaism.

Do you understand the most basic fundamentals of a religion?
Acts 23:6 – "But perceiving that one part were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, Paul began crying out in the Council, 'Brethren, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees; I am on trial for the hope and resurrection of the dead."

Paul was making reference to his past as a Jew, that he had grown up as a son of a Pharisee, that he at one time had been part of the group of the Pharisees ... prior to the experienced conversion at Damascus. But the Jews now interrogating him certainly didn't understand him to claim that he was still a Pharisee, else why did they continue persecuting him? According to Philippians 3:5-7, Paul made clear that he had been a Pharisee, as concerning the understanding of the Law, but that now for Christ he had counted everything else from before nothing but loss.

You cannot know God as Paul did if you are a prideful Pharisee. He counted his standing as a Pharisee to be a loss. His wording in Philippians would be better translated as dung.
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Old 10-28-2018, 02:26 AM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,834 posts, read 4,973,776 times
Reputation: 1510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post

For 2000 years the Jews have been the only people keeping the religion of Messiah, and here you are acting as if they need help when they have been persecuted by Christianity for 2000 years because they wont stop being Jews who keep the commandments of God, and above this, Christmas and Easter has been used as a vehicle to kill the people who wont reject God's ways.

Anyone who keeps the Sabbaths and feasts of Messiah stick out like a sore thumb for their peculiar ways and the world hates them for keeping the ways of God.

Are you going to pretend that some other people from some other fantasy reality has been keeping the ways of God while being persecuted for keeping the ways of God througout the entire history of the biblical God?

Gentile nation after Gentile nation, one people after the next CLAIM to be the true seed and people of God, and yet only one people in all history are brave enough to continue in God's ways come what may and you think this is some other people?

God is coming to fight against the nations who have persecuted the people who keep his commandments, and this is simply not Christianity by any stretch of the imagination.

Say what you will, reality happens to be reality, and the whole world knows what people keep the recorded religion of God and I guarantee you, you should have no worries about whether they believe like you, their hands speak volumes.

Jesus brought a covenant for Ephraim and Judah.........................That is all, but this covenant to Ephraim and Judah produces priests to teach the people not under the covenant, Gentiles.

The Gentile can come under the promise of Ephraim, but this is to become one with Jews in Judaism, and nobody can force the Gentile to accept the Sabbaths and feasts of Messiah, and so while Gentiles have a chance to be grafted and adopted into Israel, Gentiles usually remain Gentiles.

Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 10-28-2018 at 02:36 AM..
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Old 10-28-2018, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
9,288 posts, read 5,495,693 times
Reputation: 4048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
For 2000 years the Jews have been the only people keeping the religion of Messiah, and here you are acting as if they need help when they have been persecuted by Christianity for 2000 years because they wont stop being Jews who keep the commandments of God, and above this, Christmas and Easter has been used as a vehicle to kill the people who wont reject God's ways.

Anyone who keeps the Sabbaths and feasts of Messiah stick out like a sore thumb for their peculiar ways and the world hates them for keeping the ways of God.

Are you going to pretend that some other people from some other fantasy reality has been keeping the ways of God while being persecuted for keeping the ways of God througout the entire history of the biblical God?

Gentile nation after Gentile nation, one people after the next CLAIM to be the true seed and people of God, and yet only one people in all history are brave enough to continue in God's ways come what may and you think this is some other people?

God is coming to fight against the nations who have persecuted the people who keep his commandments, and this is simply not Christianity by any stretch of the imagination.

Say what you will, reality happens to be reality, and the whole world knows what people keep the recorded religion of God and I guarantee you, you should have no worries about whether they believe like you, their hands speak volumes.

Jesus brought a covenant for Ephraim and Judah.........................That is all, but this covenant to Ephraim and Judah produces priests to teach the people not under the covenant, Gentiles.

The Gentile can come under the promise of Ephraim, but this is to become one with Jews in Judaism, and nobody can force the Gentile to accept the Sabbaths and feasts of Messiah, and so while Gentiles have a chance to be grafted and adopted into Israel, Gentiles usually remain Gentiles.
You SAY a lot of things about what Jews "believe," but you don't provide Scriptural evidence. It's not in the NT. Paul even states that what you eat doesn't justify one before God, yet you insist what feast one attends is justification before God.

Sorry, Paul taught that faith/trust in God is righteousness. In the book of Romans he points out that circumcision nor obedience brought justification, but rather Abram's TRUST was counted as righteousness.

Yes, you are most certainly a Pharisee, trusting in keeping feasts and festivals to make you look good in God's eyes. But neither the Jews accept you for stating you believe Jesus to be the Messiah, nor do Christians accept you for having a works-based "faith" system.

And as I previously pointed out, real Jews want nothing to do theologically with messianic Jews.
Quote:
Jews for Jesus is one branch of a wider movement called Messianic Jews. Members of this movement are not accepted as Jewish by the broader Jewish community, even though some adherents may have been born Jewish and their ritual life includes Jewish practices. While an individual Jew could accept Jesus as the messiah and technically remain Jewish — rejection of any core Jewish belief or practice does not negate one’s Jewishness — the beliefs of messianic Jews are theologically incompatible with Judaism.
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/art...e-about-jesus/
If Paul were a "proud" Pharisee, why did he count being a Pharisee as so much dung compared to Christ? You are far too concerned with what will "come." I'm concerned with what IS. The difference is living with one's head in the clouds or one's feet on the ground, making the Kingdom of God on this earth--which is what Jesus taught.

Choose this day whom you will serve--the risen Lord in Jesus, or the festivals of the Jews.
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Old 10-28-2018, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,834 posts, read 4,973,776 times
Reputation: 1510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
You SAY a lot of things about what Jews "believe," but you don't provide Scriptural evidence. It's not in the NT. Paul even states that what you eat doesn't justify one before God, yet you insist what feast one attends is justification before God.

Sorry, Paul taught that faith/trust in God is righteousness. In the book of Romans he points out that circumcision nor obedience brought justification, but rather Abram's TRUST was counted as righteousness.

Yes, you are most certainly a Pharisee, trusting in keeping feasts and festivals to make you look good in God's eyes. But neither the Jews accept you for stating you believe Jesus to be the Messiah, nor do Christians accept you for having a works-based "faith" system.

And as I previously pointed out, real Jews want nothing to do theologically with messianic Jews.

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/art...e-about-jesus/
If Paul were a "proud" Pharisee, why did he count being a Pharisee as so much dung compared to Christ? You are far too concerned with what will "come." I'm concerned with what IS. The difference is living with one's head in the clouds or one's feet on the ground, making the Kingdom of God on this earth--which is what Jesus taught.

Choose this day whom you will serve--the risen Lord in Jesus, or the festivals of the Jews.
I don't need Jews to accept me, and you keep putting Jews for Jesus up there as if they were not the most evil damaging people against Jews, they would take a Jew and turn him into a Gentile.

First off, Paul went and had people circumcised himself, and it isn't about who keeps the laws, and they are not kept for salvation, it's about people who accept the religion of God, and these people would teach Christ in Passover, in Pentecost, and in all the 7 feasts.

I am not sitting here wondering whether or not I am in the religion of Christ, Christ came walking in Judaism and telling people to walk as he walked.

There is no guessing which religion I am in and which religion you are in. I accept God's religion with his commandments which happen to be the religion of Christ and those Sabbaths and feast days were made to teach of Christ and there is no way that I would ever judge you in whether you keep the Sabbaths and feasts and all their laws, it doesn't matter whether you keep feasts or not, what matters is that you accept them, and what matters is that you reject the worship system of all other Gods because whatever pagan holy day and Sabbaths you keep, they prove without a doubt what religion you are in and practicing. Nobody has told you that you need to keep any laws for salvation, but do you really think you can reject everything called of God or worshipped of God to institute the Sabbaths and feasts of pagan Gods to then slap the name of Jesus on them?

If I keep the feasts of Jesus, I am seen as unrighteous, and when Christians reject all the holy days of Jesus and all his sacrifices to then replace them with holy days and practices of Pagan gods, they think themselves righteous.

Who do you preach to, and if you are not teaching a Passover lamb, and a Sukkot bull, what are you teaching about other gods? Christians seem to think they can keep the Sabbaths and feasts of any God as long as it isn't the evil sacrifices of Jesus, and how does one have a Passover lamb, a Yom Kippur goat and a Sukkot bull when they reject the very sacrifices and days of Jesus?

I keep the religion of Christ, the actual religion Christ kept and I am the one who is mistaken?

What year was it when Gentiles rejected the religion of Messiah to adopt Pagan holy days?

What year?

Or is it your position that Jesus came instituting lawlessness and paganism?

We know that Paul never left Judaism and never stopped being a Pharisee and you act surprized, but when did Gentile Christians adopt pagan ways?

What year?
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