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Old 10-14-2018, 11:20 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
We should help those in need. It's that simple.

That doesn't mean we should vote and take money away from other people to institute a government program to do it. It means that we, personally, should get involved.



God would disagree with your philosophy. We group together, form a government, and help each other collectively through government.



You could not possible do all that is necessary to assist, a severely disabled individual. The medical bills would be bankrupting. Yet we offer housing, education, and support for the family.



Can you afford that? Of course not. Your own resources would be at risk and drained. However, together with the government we have formed collectively, we can.



As a collective group along with the government we help the severely mentally ill. You alone do not have the resources necessary. Neither does your church.



This is what God wants.
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Old 10-14-2018, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
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I agree with BapFun...personally get involved all the time.
Help others, be kind....see Him in the littlest of these.
Simple formula..do your best.
I see no dilemna in James...which I read again last night cuz of this thread
I was surprised how much i had underlined years ago! Loved the letter.

I did underline something I had not before: RSV 4:5...He yearns jealously over the spirit which he has
made to dwell in us.....wow....He wants us so badly to ackowledge and love Him....the camp that says God has no needs are SO incorrect.
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Old 10-14-2018, 11:39 AM
 
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the epistle is universal so it belongs to jews, gentiles, asians, blacks and all other created in gods image


it is apparent because the author is reiterating similar teaching that were given on thr mount and hill. though the author uses it own writing style, the epistle is basically paraphrasing what is taught in the synooptics. yes, the letters addresses ancient jews during ancient political upheaval. but like other epistles, it is regarded as universal.
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Old 10-14-2018, 12:39 PM
 
Location: California USA
921 posts, read 624,417 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiros7 View Post
the epistle of james, one of the earliest new testament books that dates a couple of decades after the inception of the early christian movement, asks its audience to define what faith can be without works, or what works can be without faith

also, it is interesting to note that many of the things advocated in the epistle, bare many similarities to what jesus sermoned on the mount

Given the dillema* that james epistle created for its audience, how can the modern christian be desensitized to the poverty that is prevalent throughout the world.
The modern Christian follows the footsteps of Jesus as much as imperfect humans can. This would mean following his commandments, one of which is to avoid the social and political divisions of the times-John 17:15,16. Thus I'll let others comment on what the solution is to poverty (eg expansion of government funded programs to aid the poor in education, child care, job training etc or faith based charity programs and private sector involvement to meet this challenge).

The modern Christian takes a balanced approach but does not lose sight of the primary effort to help others as directed by Jesus, "Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit-Matthew 28:19

"and this good news of the Kingdom must be preached to all the inhabited earth as a witness to all the nations and then the end will come."-Matthew 24:14

Jesus took the lead in healing the sick, feeding the hungry and helping the poor but he primarily instructed his disciples to preach-Matthew 10:7,8

The Book of James was written for fellow believers and as far as the faith without works or works without faith issue and poverty we read..."Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it? 15 ]If any brothers or sisters are lacking clothing and enough food for the day, 16 yet one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but you do not give them what they need for their body, of what benefit is it? 17 So, too, faith by itself, without works, is dead."-James 2;14-17

In no way should this be construed that a Christian's only course of action is preaching. Nor should it be construed that a Christian's only obligation is to help out their fellow believers in need. However, when attempting to characterize the role a Christian plays in society its important to carefully consider the context, directions and Scripture, in its entirety, to determine the course a Christian follows.
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Old 10-14-2018, 12:51 PM
 
241 posts, read 49,017 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hd4me View Post
The modern Christian follows the footsteps of Jesus as much as imperfect humans can. This would mean following his commandments, one of which is to avoid the social and political divisions of the times-John 17:15,16. Thus I'll let others comment on what the solution is to poverty (eg expansion of government funded programs to aid the poor in education, child care, job training etc or faith based charity programs and private sector involvement to meet this challenge).

The modern Christian takes a balanced approach but does not lose sight of the primary effort to help others as directed by Jesus, "Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit-Matthew 28:19

"and this good news of the Kingdom must be preached to all the inhabited earth as a witness to all the nations and then the end will come."-Matthew 24:14

Jesus took the lead in healing the sick, feeding the hungry and helping the poor but he primarily instructed his disciples to preach-Matthew 10:7,8

The Book of James was written for fellow believers and as far as the faith without works or works without faith issue and poverty we read..."Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it? 15 ]If any brothers or sisters are lacking clothing and enough food for the day, 16 yet one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but you do not give them what they need for their body, of what benefit is it? 17 So, too, faith by itself, without works, is dead."-James 2;14-17

In no way should this be construed that a Christian's only course of action is preaching. Nor should it be construed that a Christian's only obligation is to help out their fellow believers in need. However, when attempting to characterize the role a Christian plays in society its important to carefully consider the context, directions and Scripture, in its entirety, to determine the course a Christian follows.

well, we all have our own interpretations.

as the parables of the goats and tares and the good samaritan illustrate , there seems to be somethimg more to the spiritual life than t merely preaching.

i believe that the dilemma that james epistle gives modern christians is more of realization than a impractical burden.

if you think preaching will solve and fulfill . i give you this burden: what is faith without works or what is works without faifh


read these parables:

Luke 10:25-37

World English Bible (WEB)

Behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”

He said to him, “What is written in the law? How do you read it?”

He answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.”

He said to him, “You have answered correctly. Do this, and you will live.”

But he, desiring to justify himself, asked Jesus, “Who is my neighbor?”

Jesus answered, “A certain man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who both stripped him and beat him, and departed, leaving him half dead. By chance a certain priest was going down that way. When he saw him, he passed by on the other side. In the same way a Levite also, when he came to the place, and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a certain Samaritan, as he traveled, came where he was. When he saw him, he was moved with compassion, came to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. He set him on his own animal, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, and gave them to the host, and said to him, ‘Take care of him. Whatever you spend beyond that, I will repay you when I return.’ Now which of these three do you think seemed to be a neighbor to him who fell among the robbers?”

He said, “He who showed mercy on him.”

Then Jesus said to him, “Go and do likewise.”



Matthew 25:31-46

World English Bible (WEB)

“But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. Before him all the nations will be gathered, and he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will tell those on his right hand, ‘Come, blessed of my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry, and you gave me food to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me drink. I was a stranger, and you took me in. I was naked, and you clothed me. I was sick, and you visited me. I was in prison, and you came to me.’

“Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry, and feed you; or thirsty, and give you a drink? When did we see you as a stranger, and take you in; or naked, and clothe you? When did we see you sick, or in prison, and come to you?’

“The King will answer them, ‘Most certainly I tell you, because you did it to one of the least of these my brothers , you did it to me.’ Then he will say also to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you didn’t give me food to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me no drink; I was a stranger, and you didn’t take me in; naked, and you didn’t clothe me; sick, and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’

“Then they will also answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and didn’t help you?’

“Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Most certainly I tell you, because you didn’t do it to one of the least of these, you didn’t do it to me.’ These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”





excuse unedited grammar

Last edited by spiros7; 10-14-2018 at 01:02 PM..
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Old 10-14-2018, 01:41 PM
 
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as a christian, i believe in simply this: peace. whether a person is religious or non-religious, i believe in having peace with everybody. when it comes to society, i adhere to these tenants- non-violence, empathy, sympathy,merciful, compassion, pacifism and mercy.
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Old 10-14-2018, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
15,355 posts, read 12,114,801 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiros7 View Post
as a christian, i believe in simply this: peace. whether a person is religious or non-religious, i believe in having peace with everybody. when it comes to society, i adhere to these tenants- non-violence, empathy, sympathy,merciful, compassion, pacifism and mercy.
One of the most Imp... humility or, let's say, no pride...good way to keep peace with everyone....try when someone is sticking it to you, gossiping at work, but it's all lies...try it then...haha...a fun challenge.
Always a self litmus test of spiritual advancement!
That's when the rubber hits the pavement.
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Old 10-15-2018, 08:33 AM
 
2,304 posts, read 623,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiros7 View Post
the epistle is universal so it belongs to jews, gentiles, asians, blacks and all other created in gods image


it is apparent because the author is reiterating similar teaching that were given on thr mount and hill. though the author uses it own writing style, the epistle is basically paraphrasing what is taught in the synooptics. yes, the letters addresses ancient jews during ancient political upheaval. but like other epistles, it is regarded as universal.




Jesus Sends Out the Twelve Apostles

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them, “Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans, 6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And proclaim as you go, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.





For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law (Romans 3.28).

James contradicts the clear teaching of grace later....
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Old 10-15-2018, 08:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
This may be the most egregious misrepresentation I have ever encountered. The clear fact is that James was addressing Jewish CHRISTIANS and not those who were not followers of Jesus. How blatant an excuse could you come up with to deny the efficacy of the gospel in transforming lives and the dedication to demonstrating the principle of love?

Acts 11:25 So Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, 26 and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. For a whole year they met with the church and taught a great many people. And in Antioch the disciples were first called Christians.

You say James knew a gospel.....which one?
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Old 10-15-2018, 08:44 AM
 
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For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law (Romans 3.28).

You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2.24).
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