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Old 10-18-2018, 02:33 PM
 
21,839 posts, read 16,687,197 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Thank you, Mike. Excellent post!
You're welcome Jimmie. I'm glad you liked it. And thanks.
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Old 10-18-2018, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,803 posts, read 4,968,434 times
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Why did God choose Israel to save, and why did God appoint Egyptians to die?

Why did God choose Judah to be saved when Ephraim's kingdom was appointed to fall?

You can't tell God who he can choose for destruction when he has created and appointed them for destruction in the beginning.

The Egyptians represent this first life of flesh, and this life of flesh is NO DOUBT born and appointed for destruction just as the kingdom of Ephraim represents the first born of flesh, just as Esau had, just as Ishmael, and just as Cain, the first born is appointed to serve the second born because flesh should serve spirit and not the other way around. Passover is about us dying to our fleshly natures to die daily in order to let the spirit live in us every day, and each day we are to die.

When the great division takes place, it is the separation of these two kingdoms within us, and it will always be kingdom against kingdom until the goats are separated from the sheep, the tare from the wheat, as the mind of the flesh is taken away from us, and our imaginations no longer evil.
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Old 10-18-2018, 02:51 PM
 
20,389 posts, read 9,825,009 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The view expressed by Gotquestions concerning election and predestination is the Calvinist interpretation. But it is not Biblical. The Calvinist view of election and predestination fails to take into account and cannot explain why since God desires that all men be saved as per 1 Timothy 2:4, and doesn't desire that anyone perish as per 2 Peter 3:9 why He would then sovereignly decree to elect and predestine only certain people while leaving others under condemnation.

That view logically implies that while God wants to save everyone, and although He is Sovereign and all powerful, yet for some reason, He is unable to save everyone. It is true that not everyone will be saved despite the fact that God desires that all be saved. And the reason is because by God's sovereign will, in human history the volition of man co-exists with the sovereignty of God. God limits the use of His sovereignty so that human volition can act contrary to God's will.

The issue in salvation is whether a person will respond to the gospel message by believing in Christ Jesus. That is, by believing that Jesus died for his sins and rose again. Anyone who believes this and as a result simply trusts in the finished redemptive work of Jesus on the cross has eternal life.

The issue in predestination isn't even salvation. The object of predestination is not salvation, but what anyone who believes in Christ is predestined to. God in His foreknowledge knows who will volitionally respond to the gospel message and receive Jesus as Savior. And knowing this, He elects them and predestines them to be conformed to the image of His Son and to be glorified as per Romans 8:29-30.

A person's volitional response to the gospel message determines whether or not he will be eternally saved. God doesn't withhold salvation from a person without regard to a person's volition. Jesus said to the group of people to whom he was speaking, ''and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life'' (John 5:40).

The invitation to eternal life is for everyone. One need only accept the invitation by placing his faith in Jesus Christ.
I agree that Gotquestions is not the best place to support one's conclusions. But neither is your interpretation. And, yes, I have searched and studied the Calvinistic and Arminianism perspectives and would never succumb to the fearmongering of eternal damnation which is present within both of those beliefs.

The gospel message has nothing to do with threatening humanity.
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Old 10-18-2018, 02:59 PM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,093 posts, read 23,907,294 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Thank you, Mike. Excellent post!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
You're welcome Jimmie. I'm glad you liked it. And thanks.
But the real question is, not what the flesh thinks of the post, but rather what does god think of the post?
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Old 10-18-2018, 03:37 PM
 
21,839 posts, read 16,687,197 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
I agree that Gotquestions is not the best place to support one's conclusions. But neither is your interpretation. And, yes, I have searched and studied the Calvinistic and Arminianism perspectives and would never succumb to the fearmongering of eternal damnation which is present within both of those beliefs.

The gospel message has nothing to do with threatening humanity.
Did I say that the gospel message had anything to do with threatening humanity? The gospel is good news. The fact that humanity is under condemnation is not good news. The good news is what God has done about the fact that man is under condemnation. For that reason, God sent His Son into the world to go to the cross and to pay the penalty for our sins. The Bible is clear about this. Your refusal to believe it doesn't alter the facts.
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Old 10-18-2018, 04:17 PM
 
Location: New England
32,225 posts, read 21,104,768 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
But the real question is, not what the flesh thinks of the post, but rather what does god think of the post?
The real question is i would say, is what is the fruit that it is bearing..
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Old 10-18-2018, 04:52 PM
 
40,056 posts, read 26,735,309 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Did I say that the gospel message had anything to do with threatening humanity? The gospel is good news. The fact that humanity is under condemnation is not good news. The good news is what God has done about the fact that man is under condemnation. For that reason, God sent His Son into the world to go to the cross and to pay the penalty for our sins. The Bible is clear about this. Your refusal to believe it doesn't alter the facts.
Not only is it NOT clear that Jesus paid any penalty to God, but it is also abundantly clear that He suffered at the hands of our brutal and barbaric ancestors because of their primitive and ignorant beliefs about God (They knew not what they were doing.).God needed no such payment for any reason. Jesus achieved what we could NOT despite our ancestors' brutality and barbarity. We just needed one of us (Jesus, His begotten) to achieve what we couldn't - perfect agape love for us all, including His torturers and murderers, thereby connecting ALL humans to God's perfect agape love.
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Old 10-18-2018, 05:37 PM
 
21,839 posts, read 16,687,197 times
Reputation: 8661
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Not only is it NOT clear that Jesus paid any penalty to God, but it is also abundantly clear that He suffered at the hands of our brutal and barbaric ancestors because of their primitive and ignorant beliefs about God (They knew not what they were doing.).God needed no such payment for any reason. Jesus achieved what we could NOT despite our ancestors' brutality and barbarity. We just needed one of us (Jesus, His begotten) to achieve what we couldn't - perfect agape love for us all, including His torturers and murderers, thereby connecting ALL humans to God's perfect agape love.
It is completely clear that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins. That is the reason why he bore our sins in his own body as he hung on the cross as per 1 Peter 2:24. That is why Isaiah 53 states that He was cut off for the transgression of His people for whom the stroke was due, and why He was pierced through for our transgressions, and again, as per Isaiah 53 why He bore the sins of many and interceded for the transgressors.

Jesus gave His life as a ransom for many as stated in Mark 10:45. The wages of sin is death, and Jesus paid the ransom price with His spiritual death on the cross.

Your beliefs are contrary to what the Bible teaches. And you know that, but you reject what the Bible says in favor of your own beliefs.
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Old 10-18-2018, 07:25 PM
 
954 posts, read 242,028 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The view expressed by Gotquestions concerning election and predestination is the Calvinist interpretation. But it is not Biblical. The Calvinist view of election and predestination fails to take into account and cannot explain why since God desires that all men be saved as per 1 Timothy 2:4, and doesn't desire that anyone perish as per 2 Peter 3:9 why He would then sovereignly decree to elect and predestine only certain people while leaving others under condemnation.

That view logically implies that while God wants to save everyone, and although He is Sovereign and all powerful, yet for some reason, He is unable to save everyone. It is true that not everyone will be saved despite the fact that God desires that all be saved. And the reason is because by God's sovereign will, in human history the volition of man co-exists with the sovereignty of God. God limits the use of His sovereignty so that human volition can act contrary to God's will.

The issue in salvation is whether a person will respond to the gospel message by believing in Christ Jesus. That is, by believing that Jesus died for his sins and rose again. Anyone who believes this and as a result simply trusts in the finished redemptive work of Jesus on the cross has eternal life.

The issue in predestination isn't even salvation. The object of predestination is not salvation, but what anyone who believes in Christ is predestined to. God in His foreknowledge knows who will volitionally respond to the gospel message and receive Jesus as Savior. And knowing this, He elects them and predestines them to be conformed to the image of His Son and to be glorified as per Romans 8:29-30.

A person's volitional response to the gospel message determines whether or not he will be eternally saved. God doesn't withhold salvation from a person without regard to a person's volition. Jesus said to the group of people to whom he was speaking, ''and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life'' (John 5:40).

The invitation to eternal life is for everyone. One need only accept the invitation by placing his faith in Jesus Christ.
This is incorrect on multiple fronts. Read the article again. They do explan Predestination versus manís free will. They explain far better than just presumptions and opinions.

But let me ask you one question. What do you think it means to have faith in Jesus?
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Old 10-18-2018, 07:30 PM
 
8,671 posts, read 3,104,242 times
Reputation: 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by SumTingy View Post
This is incorrect on multiple fronts. Read the article again. They do explan Predestination versus man’s free will. They explain far better than just presumptions and opinions.

But let me ask you one question. What do you think it means to have faith in Jesus?
Oh,
which was part was an affront?
All I heard was free gift!

Maybe my selective hearing is the issue"
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