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Old 10-19-2018, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,788 posts, read 4,963,523 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
I know you won’t agree so I’m just sharing to share ... I see all of that pertaining to the here and now, not an afterlife.
It does pertain to the here and now, we are already in the kingdom, and this is the least of the kingdom amongst 3 realms, we fell here because we failed last time and we may fail again. This is the kingdom of heaven and this is the outcome of the least of that kingdom. Just my opinion.

Many of us think we need to live in the higher kingdom where we walk in and continue our way to the best front seats because we somehow think we are more righteous than others and others should serve us.

What we should do is to serve others instead of acting like kings and queens of the Earth.

Jesus talks about this as it will happen in the kingdom come, but it happens everyday when we put our needs above the needs of others, we choose the best seats.
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Old 10-19-2018, 02:37 PM
 
Location: USA
15,906 posts, read 8,166,085 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
It does pertain to the here and now, we are already in the kingdom, and this is the least of the kingdom amongst 3 realms, we fell here because we failed last time and we may fail again. This is the kingdom of heaven and this is the outcome of the least of that kingdom. Just my opinion.
Then we are closer in understanding than perhaps we thought, although I don’t think anyone failed anything. As I see it, it’s a matter of never-ending opportunities to move “further in and higher up”. .


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal
Many of us think we need to live in the higher kingdom where we walk in and continue our way to the best front seats because we somehow think we are more righteous than others and others should serve us.

What we should do is to serve others instead of acting like kings and queens of the Earth.

Jesus talks about this as it will happen in the kingdom come, but it happens everyday when we put our needs above the needs of others, we choose the best seats.

Well said.
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Old 10-19-2018, 05:36 PM
 
954 posts, read 241,778 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
No, it is not incorrect on multiple fronts.

I have read the article again, and it takes the position of Calvinism, that God chooses who will be saved without regard for human volition. Basically the idea is that if God has chosen you to be saved you will come to have faith. In other words, in Calvinism salvation comes before faith. And that is the opposite of what the Bible teaches.

From the article.
The difference boils down to this: who has the ultimate choice in salvation—God or man? In the first view (the prescient view), man has control; his free will is sovereign and becomes the determining factor in God’s election. God can provide the way of salvation through Jesus Christ, but man must choose Christ for himself in order to make salvation real. Ultimately, this view diminishes the biblical understanding of God's sovereignty. This view puts the Creator's provision of salvation at the mercy of the creature; if God wants people in heaven, He has to hope that man will freely choose His way of salvation. In reality, the prescient view of election is no view of election at all, because God is not really choosing—He is only confirming. It is man who is the ultimate chooser.

https://www.gotquestions.org/elect-of-God.html
The article takes the position, and misunderstands it, that if a person is saved because he chooses of his own 'free will' to place his faith and trust in Christ for his salvation that it diminishes the Biblical understanding of God's sovereignty. God doesn't have to hope that man will freely choose His way of salvation. He already knew from eternity past who would and who would not believe the gospel. Again, predestination doesn't refer to salvation, but to what those who believe in Christ are predestined to.

Contrary to what the article says, man having 'free will,' actually volition does not make that volition sovereign. Man must make a volitional decision with regard to the gospel. If he has a positive response and believes in Christ then he receives eternal life. If he rejects the gospel then he remains under condemnation.

Again, as was shown from two different verses, God does not desire that anyone perish, but that all men be saved. Therefore, God does not predestine certain people to be saved while leaving others in condemnation. And God does not provide the faith that is necessary to be saved. Faith is a response to the gospel message. And faith is trust in the veracity of another. To have faith in Jesus is to trust in his finished redemptive work on the cross. To believe in Christ is to accept that he died for your sins and that he rose again.

No, they wrote the Article arguing two distinct positions. They did not take a side. You need to read the whole article and not just take a sentence or two and call it the theme
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Old 10-19-2018, 06:42 PM
 
21,819 posts, read 16,678,731 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SumTingy View Post
No, they wrote the Article arguing two distinct positions. They did not take a side. You need to read the whole article and not just take a sentence or two and call it the theme
I read the article. As I said, the gotquestions.org website is Calvinistic, and the founder of that site, S. Michael Houdmann describes himself and gotquestions.org as moderately Calvinistic. He believes that Jesus only died for those who the Father decided to save (limited atonement). He believes that everyone whom God has chosen will believe.

Here. You can read what he says for yourself. Why do some people so passionately hate Calvinism?
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Old 10-19-2018, 06:55 PM
 
954 posts, read 241,778 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I read the article. As I said, the gotquestions.org website is Calvinistic, and the founder of that site, S. Michael Houdmann describes himself and gotquestions.org as moderately Calvinistic. He believes that Jesus only died for those who the Father decided to save (limited atonement). He believes that everyone whom God has chosen will believe.

Here. You can read what he says for yourself. Why do some people so passionately hate Calvinism?
I am talking about the article. Gotquestions does slant towards Reformed theology, no question—excuse the pun. And you kind of hijack my thread. The Walking dead Meat Puppets do that. They are not a group we should mimic
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Old 10-19-2018, 07:02 PM
 
21,819 posts, read 16,678,731 times
Reputation: 8655
Quote:
Originally Posted by SumTingy View Post
I am talking about the article. Gotquestions does slant towards Reformed theology, no question—excuse the pun. And you kind of hijack my thread. The Walking dead Meat Puppets do that. They are not a group we should mimic
I didn't hijack your thread. I said in post #129 that gotquestions.org is Calvinistic. And it is. And the article to which you refer, although it presents two sides, comes down on the side of Calvinism.
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