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Old 10-24-2018, 06:07 PM
 
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We will be carried to a higher-place, even while we yet live!
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Old 10-24-2018, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,765 posts, read 4,958,159 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The catching up of the church in 1 Thess. 4:17 IS the rapture of the church. The English word 'Rapture' is taken from the Latin word 'rapiemur'
Deinde nos, qui vivimus, qui relinquimur, simul rapiemur c um illis in nubibus obviam Christo in aëra, et sic semper c um Domino erimus. [Latin: Vulgata]
which is the Latin translation of the Greek word 'ἁρπάζω' - 'harpazó' which means to snatch away, to seize, to take away, and which is usually translated as 'caught up' in English translations. The rapture of the church is the catching up of the church to which Paul refers in 1 Thess. 4:17. Scholars have noted a parallel with John 14:1-3 where Jesus tells the disciples that He is going to His Fathers house to prepare a place for them that where He is, they may also be.
The Rapture and John 14 :: by Thomas Ice

A significant number of commentators note that our Lord’s statements in John 14:1-3 parallels another New Testament passage—1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. Renald Showers points out a number of similarities between the two passages. However, it was the late Mennonite commentator, J. B. Smith, who demonstrated just how extensive the relationship of these two passages really are.

Dr. Smith made word-for-word comparisons between the Rapture passage (1 Thess. 4:13-18) and a clear Second Advent text (Rev. 19:11-21) and found no significant parallels. “Hence it is impossible that one sentence or even one phrase can be alike in the two lists,” observes Dr. Smith. “And finally not one word in the two lists is used in the same relation or connection.” He goes on to conclude that “It would be difficult if not impossible to find elsewhere any two important passages of Scripture that are so diverse in the words employed and so opposite in their implications. . . . We believe the comparison of the words of these two passages . . . describe different events.”

Read more: https://www.raptureready.com/2010/08...by-thomas-ice/
The Bible plainly speaks of a rapture of the church which is a different event than the return of Christ at the end of the Tribulation. And while theologians may and do disagree on the timing of the rapture (before, during, or after the Tribulation), relatively few Christians deny a rapture altogether. Those who do simply don't know what they're talking about. And as stated, I hold to the pre-tribulational view. And I know why I do.

Oh, and the Bible does indeed speak of a seven year Tribulation.
You can quote people all day and it is not going to change what is already appointed. Just like Paul said,'' We who are alive and remain will then be caught up.''

They remain alive, they are the ones who were tested in fire but they did not die while the rest die. That is why it says,'' Then we who remain.''

The reason you don't know what you are talking about is because you don't have a clue what is appointed to take place in the fall holy days, you don't know because it isn't your religion, you don't know the appointed visitation days but you talk like you are an expert. Why don't you try and actually study the religion of Christ and his appointed visitation days and maybe you will get a clue.

Ann Mcdonald came up with this silly rapture idea, and do you know why?

She was a Catholic and she believed Revelation was speaking about Rome and how it became the seat of Anti christ, and the only way she could rationalize this idea was to have the saints taken out of Rome before it became the seat of the Anti christ, it has nothing to do with the appointed visitation days, and yoj are speaking of Rosh Hashanah, the last trump, and you can make up anything you like, but you are speaking in ignorance about a set appointed holy day that you don't know.
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Old 10-24-2018, 07:32 PM
 
21,804 posts, read 16,670,340 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
You can quote people all day and it is not going to change what is already appointed. Just like Paul said,'' We who are alive and remain will then be caught up.''

They remain alive, they are the ones who were tested in fire but they did not die while the rest die. That is why it says,'' Then we who remain.''

The reason you don't know what you are talking about is because you don't have a clue what is appointed to take place in the fall holy days, you don't know because it isn't your religion, you don't know the appointed visitation days but you talk like you are an expert. Why don't you try and actually study the religion of Christ and his appointed visitation days and maybe you will get a clue.

Ann Mcdonald came up with this silly rapture idea, and do you know why?

She was a Catholic and she believed Revelation was speaking about Rome and how it became the seat of Anti christ, and the only way she could rationalize this idea was to have the saints taken out of Rome before it became the seat of the Anti christ, it has nothing to do with the appointed visitation days, and yoj are speaking of Rosh Hashanah, the last trump, and you can make up anything you like, but you are speaking in ignorance about a set appointed holy day that you don't know.
No, it is not going to change what you think. But you were shown in post #50 that the rapture is Biblical.
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Old 10-24-2018, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,765 posts, read 4,958,159 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
No, it is not going to change what you think. But you were shown in post #50 that the rapture is Biblical.
No, it isn't biblical, your idea of biblical is to create your own religion, your own laws and your own Sabbaths and feasts Mike, but I am talking about the appointed visitation days of Jesus and just how detailed their missions are, missions that you could learn, and if you did actaully learn the appointed visitation days of Christ, you wouldn't be saying what you are saying.

You talk about the wheat and tares as two people when the tare is in you, you talk about the division of the sheep and the goat when you are both. You talk about the war of kingdom against kingdom inside you as if Jesus was speaking of a future war when he was speaking of you.

You are reading about two women and the wheel as if they were two different women or if the two men in the bed was not the same man.

You speak of Lazarus and the rich man as if they were not the same person and you are contiuously speaking about an appointed division that takes place when God takes that Goat from you, when that son of lawlessness is revealed in you. You think Jesus is going to put his foot down on Mount Olives and the mount is going to divide, but that is your head when Jesus will divide you in Two.

All the time speaking of the great appointed day of division that you are unaware of because you are unaware of what the appointed days are appointed for.

You would even tell me that God is coming to punish Jerusalem, that the houses will be ransacked, and the women ravished, and this is part of your tribulation.

But you are Jerusalem.
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Old 10-24-2018, 08:50 PM
 
21,804 posts, read 16,670,340 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
No, it isn't biblical, your idea of biblical is to create your own religion, your own laws and your own Sabbaths and feasts Mike, but I am talking about the appointed visitation days of Jesus and just how detailed their missions are, missions that you could learn, and if you did actaully learn the appointed visitation days of Christ, you wouldn't be saying what you are saying.

You talk about the wheat and tares as two people when the tare is in you, you talk about the division of the sheep and the goat when you are both. You talk about the war of kingdom against kingdom inside you as if Jesus was speaking of a future war when he was speaking of you.

You are reading about two women and the wheel as if they were two different women or if the two men in the bed was not the same man.

You speak of Lazarus and the rich man as if they were not the same person and you are contiuously speaking about an appointed division that takes place when God takes that Goat from you, when that son of lawlessness is revealed in you. You think Jesus is going to put his foot down on Mount Olives and the mount is going to divide, but that is your head when Jesus will divide you in Two.

All the time speaking of the great appointed day of division that you are unaware of because you are unaware of what the appointed days are appointed for.

You would even tell me that God is coming to punish Jerusalem, that the houses will be ransacked, and the women ravished, and this is part of your tribulation.

But you are Jerusalem.
Again, despite your unwillingness or inability to be objective, you were shown in the first paragraph of post #50 that the rapture of the church is Biblical. And as I told the user 101, I don't care whether you believe it or not. You've got your head shoved too far up your beliefs to listen to anyone and I'll not waste my time arguing with you and your inane comments. We're done.
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Old 10-25-2018, 08:30 AM
 
1,078 posts, read 770,393 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolom View Post
Matthew 24: 29

29 “Immediately after the distress of those days

“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’[b]

30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

Jesus said he will return and be VISIBLE in the sky to where the whole earth will see him. He said it would happen to the generation of people he was speaking to.

Preterism isn't the answer either; Jesus said his return would be visible to all the tribes of the earth. VISIBLE.
Visible? Kind of. According to the rapture theory, He comes back cloaked, hovers a few thousand feet in the air and then beams all the saints into the air and takes them to heaven for exactly 3 1/2 years. Then He comes back visibly with a can a whoop-a** in His hand and oh what a reckoning to everyone else.

So to you unlucky left behinders...just count down the days in 3 1/2 years from the rapture and repent the day before the VISIBLE 2nd coming. You have a few years to party still.
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Old 10-25-2018, 02:14 PM
 
5,133 posts, read 2,527,570 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero 7 View Post
Visible? Kind of. According to the rapture theory, He comes back cloaked, hovers a few thousand feet in the air and then beams all the saints into the air and takes them to heaven for exactly 3 1/2 years. Then He comes back visibly with a can a whoop-a** in His hand and oh what a reckoning to everyone else.
So to you unlucky left behinders...just count down the days in 3 1/2 years from the rapture and repent the day before the VISIBLE 2nd coming. You have a few years to party still.
Rapture theory is a theory and Not a scriptural teaching.
Just as Noah and company were Not raptured neither will the humble 'sheep'-like people of Matthew 25:31-33,37,40 be raptured, rather they can remain alive on Earth, and continue to live on Earth right through the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14, before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, ushers in global Peace on Earth among people of goodwill.
The wicked will be destroyed forever as per Psalms 92:7. The 'executional words' from Jesus' mouth will rid the Earth of the wicked, the righteous ' remain ' on Earth as per Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16; Proverbs 2:21-22.
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Old 10-25-2018, 02:18 PM
 
5,133 posts, read 2,527,570 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
We will be carried to a higher-place, even while we yet live!
Only the resurrected ' first fruits ' of 1st Cor. 15:20,23 have that higher-place resurrection to Heaven.
The rest of righteous mankind ' remain ' here on Earth - Proverbs 2:21-22.
Remain here on Earth to be part of the humble meek people who will inherit the Earth.- Psalm 37:9-11.
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Old 10-25-2018, 05:39 PM
 
20,342 posts, read 9,813,292 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
We will be carried to a higher-place, even while we yet live!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Only the resurrected ' first fruits ' of 1st Cor. 15:20,23 have that higher-place resurrection to Heaven.
The rest of righteous mankind ' remain ' here on Earth - Proverbs 2:21-22.
Remain here on Earth to be part of the humble meek people who will inherit the Earth.- Psalm 37:9-11.
We have already inherited the earth, presently it's our physical dwelling place. And, as we live, we will be carried to a higher-place. As for heaven, I do not believe it is out yonder or that anyone will be raptured. Neither, do I see that it is necessary to return once we have died a physical death for the earth would not be able to contain the souls that have lived and died over a vast period of time. And, if no one dies, than it will be over populated in a much shorter period. Unless of course, those on earth do not plan on having any more children?

And if no one aged, you would probably get tired of changing diapers. I don't believe that the religious minded who want a heaven on earth have thought things through enough. Now, if they were to expand throughout the universe, or multiple universe's, then they might have something to speak about?

Last edited by Jerwade; 10-25-2018 at 06:00 PM..
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Old 10-25-2018, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
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there are two resurrection with a thousand year period in between the two, scripture.

Revelation 20:4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:7 "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Revelation 20:8 "And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Revelation 20:9 "And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Revelation 20:10 "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


now common sense tell us if there is a rapture back to heaven then the Lord Jesus must return "THREE" time, for there is a second resurrection of the dead, who are not rightious.

and there is no three returnes of Christ anywhere in the bible. just on this alone eliminates any heavenly rapture.

People need to think on what they have read.

PICYJAG.
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