U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 12-24-2018, 03:50 PM
 
5,147 posts, read 2,537,067 times
Reputation: 385

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by brndnms View Post
Actually, only certain sins required the death penalty. Many did not and required only restitution ( Ex 22), yet animal sacrifice was still required (Lev 4 & 5). There were exceptions to animal sacrifice (Lev 5:11-12). For those who had not committed a sin unto death (1 John 5:16-17) there would be no need for anyone to die to pay his penalty. Only certain sins required the death penalty and the sacrifice would be the life of the guilty. The Law of God still required the guilty to pay for his sin and forbade it being paid by guiltless person (Eze 18:4-9).
Adam by deliberately breaking God's Law suffered the death penalty for his crime.
Thus, father Adam passed down to us his then acquired adamic sin in that we now lean towards /wrongdoing.
Unlike Adam, this is through No fault of our own.
Since we can Not stop sinning we die.
We can Not resurrect oneself or another, so we need someone who can resurrect us. Jesus can and will - Rev. 1:18.
In order to balance the Scales of Justice (death for death) then Jesus had to die to balance the Scales of Justice for us.
I find at Ezekiel 18:20 the son does Not bear the sin of the father or vice versa.
We do Not bear father Adam's sin, and both Jesus and Jesus' father bears No sin.
All are put to death for their own sins as per Deuteronomy 24:16 and 2nd Chronicles 25:4 B.
So, we all die for our own sins, and without outside help we can Not stop sinning/dying.
Kind of like Adam sold us into the Pawn Shop of Death.
In order to get out then we need someone from the outside to pay the asking price for our sins - Romans 6:23.
Since a sinless person is the only one who can pay that price tag, this is where sinless Jesus enters into the picture.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-24-2018, 04:00 PM
 
1,382 posts, read 488,093 times
Reputation: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Adam by deliberately breaking God's Law suffered the death penalty for his crime.
Thus, father Adam passed down to us his then acquired adamic sin in that we now lean towards /wrongdoing.
Unlike Adam, this is through No fault of our own.
Since we can Not stop sinning we die.
We can Not resurrect oneself or another, so we need someone who can resurrect us. Jesus can and will - Rev. 1:18.
In order to balance the Scales of Justice (death for death) then Jesus had to die to balance the Scales of Justice for us.
I find at Ezekiel 18:20 the son does Not bear the sin of the father or vice versa.
We do Not bear father Adam's sin, and both Jesus and Jesus' father bears No sin.
All are put to death for their own sins as per Deuteronomy 24:16 and 2nd Chronicles 25:4 B.
So, we all die for our own sins, and without outside help we can Not stop sinning/dying.
Kind of like Adam sold us into the Pawn Shop of Death.
In order to get out then we need someone from the outside to pay the asking price for our sins - Romans 6:23.
Since a sinless person is the only one who can pay that price tag, this is where sinless Jesus enters into the picture.
Yeshua's message was to "stop sinning", such as repent. On the other hand, the gospel of the false prophet Paul, the gospel of grace/cross, was the opposite, and that you can't sin, because you have been "released from the Law" (Romans 7:6). If you were "released from the Law", how come you are going to die? "Everyone will die for their own iniquity"/lawlessness/sin (Jeremiah 31:30).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-24-2018, 04:02 PM
 
5,147 posts, read 2,537,067 times
Reputation: 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by brndnms View Post
KJV Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Therefore Christ's blood was, indeed shed because of the remission of sins because with the advent of the New Covenant, these people were now able to have their sins forgiven by following God's Law on forgiveness...............
Also, I find at 1st John 1:7 B that Jesus' shed blood cleanses all, however Not all will end up accepting Jesus.
That is why Matthew 20:28 says that Jesus' ransom covers 'MANY' and does Not say everyone.
The wicked will be ' destroyed forever ' as per Psalm 92:7.
Jesus only comes to the rescue of those wanting to be righteous upright humble people - Psalm 72:8; Psalm 72:12-14.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-24-2018, 04:11 PM
 
5,147 posts, read 2,537,067 times
Reputation: 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndpillar View Post
Yeshua's message was to "stop sinning", such as repent. On the other hand, the gospel of the false prophet Paul, the gospel of grace/cross, was the opposite, and that you can't sin, because you have been "released from the Law" (Romans 7:6). If you were "released from the Law", how come you are going to die? "Everyone will die for their own iniquity"/lawlessness/sin (Jeremiah 31:30).
Yes, those Jews, that old Jewish nation, was released from the Law - Romans 10:4 - Not released from sinning.
The wicked people alive on Earth at the soon coming time of Jeremiah 25:31-33 will turn on themselves.
They will turn each other into ' bird food ' for birds of prey - Revelation 19:17-18.
The rest will be executed by the executional words from Jesus' mouth - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-24-2018, 04:33 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
4,247 posts, read 658,528 times
Reputation: 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndpillar View Post
Yeshua's message was to "stop sinning", such as repent. On the other hand, the gospel of the false prophet Paul, the gospel of grace/cross, was the opposite, and that you can't sin, because you have been "released from the Law" (Romans 7:6). If you were "released from the Law", how come you are going to die? "Everyone will die for their own iniquity"/lawlessness/sin (Jeremiah 31:30).
There is confusion between Judah who was bound by Moses law which came into effect because of transgression and Adam who was before Abraham

Christ came as the 2nd Adam and is not under Moses law he is lord of the sabbath (the 7th day rest).... that is what Paul was preaching by revelation that if you obey Christ you are not under MOSES LAW
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-24-2018, 05:17 PM
 
21,916 posts, read 16,721,895 times
Reputation: 8732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Well, at least you admit that there are false teachers, although much of what you believe and expound on falls under that category. I know you will never confess to it, so there is really no reason to refute you, other than to say that your theology of God's wrath and the Penal Substitution theory is bogus. But again, you can believe whatever it is you believe.
The teachings of the apostles are not false teachings and the apostles are not false teachers. You and you beliefs however are. You are the one who denies the teachings of the apostles. And you are completely unable to refute me just as you can't refute the apostolic teachings. All you are capable of is making empty comments that are without substance, and of being contentious. And once again you've been given far more attention than you deserve. We're done here.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-24-2018, 05:27 PM
 
21,916 posts, read 16,721,895 times
Reputation: 8732
Quote:
Originally Posted by brndnms View Post
Isaiah 53 is no different. It's about Christ dying because of His people's sins. It doesn't say He was to die to pay the price of those sins.



Actually, only certain sins required the death penalty. Many did not and required only restitution ( Ex 22), yet animal sacrifice was still required (Lev 4 & 5). There were exceptions to animal sacrifice (Lev 5:11-12). For those who had not committed a sin unto death (1 John 5:16-17) there would be no need for anyone to die to pay his penalty. Only certain sins required the death penalty and the sacrifice would be the life of the guilty. The Law of God still required the guilty to pay for his sin and forbade it being paid by guiltless person (Eze 18:4-9).
Do you not understand what redemption means? Jesus redeemed us from the penalty of sin by paying the purchase price with His death on the cross.

And Isaiah 53 states that the suffering servant, which is Jesus, interceded for the transgressors, bearing the sin of many, rendering Himself as a guilt offering. All of this has to do with Jesus dying for, not merely 'because' of our sins. He came into the world to go to the cross for the purpose of paying the penalty for our sins. He died in our place as our substitute.

And again, the animal sacrifices were types or pictures of the death of Christ on the cross.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-24-2018, 06:08 PM
 
20,430 posts, read 9,845,914 times
Reputation: 1678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Well, at least you admit that there are false teachers, although much of what you believe and expound on falls under that category. I know you will never confess to it, so there is really no reason to refute you, other than to say that your theology of God's wrath and the Penal Substitution theory is bogus. But again, you can believe whatever it is you believe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The teachings of the apostles are not false teachings and the apostles are not false teachers. You and you beliefs however are. You are the one who denies the teachings of the apostles. And you are completely unable to refute me just as you can't refute the apostolic teachings. All you are capable of is making empty comments that are without substance, and of being contentious. And once again you've been given far more attention than you deserve. We're done here.
You can worship your false beliefs until the cows come home, but it won't make them true.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-24-2018, 06:16 PM
 
20,430 posts, read 9,845,914 times
Reputation: 1678
Quote:
Originally Posted by brndnms View Post
Isaiah 53 is no different. It's about Christ dying because of His people's sins. It doesn't say He was to die to pay the price of those sins.


Actually, only certain sins required the death penalty. Many did not and required only restitution ( Ex 22), yet animal sacrifice was still required (Lev 4 & 5). There were exceptions to animal sacrifice (Lev 5:11-12). For those who had not committed a sin unto death (1 John 5:16-17) there would be no need for anyone to die to pay his penalty. Only certain sins required the death penalty and the sacrifice would be the life of the guilty. The Law of God still required the guilty to pay for his sin and forbade it being paid by guiltless person (Eze 18:4-9).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Do you not understand what redemption means? Jesus redeemed us from the penalty of sin by paying the purchase price with His death on the cross.

And Isaiah 53 states that the suffering servant, which is Jesus, interceded for the transgressors, bearing the sin of many, rendering Himself as a guilt offering. All of this has to do with Jesus dying for, not merely 'because' of our sins. He came into the world to go to the cross for the purpose of paying the penalty for our sins. He died in our place as our substitute.

And again, the animal sacrifices were types or pictures of the death of Christ on the cross.
How can you even begin to comprehend redemption, when your view of justice is retributive?
Jesus himself, even argued against this "eye for an eye" justice in the sermon on the mount.


(see Matthew 5:38-42)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-24-2018, 09:26 PM
 
954 posts, read 146,394 times
Reputation: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Do you not understand what redemption means? Jesus redeemed us from the penalty of sin by paying the purchase price with His death on the cross.

And Isaiah 53 states that the suffering servant, which is Jesus, interceded for the transgressors, bearing the sin of many, rendering Himself as a guilt offering. All of this has to do with Jesus dying for, not merely 'because' of our sins. He came into the world to go to the cross for the purpose of paying the penalty for our sins. He died in our place as our substitute.

And again, the animal sacrifices were types or pictures of the death of Christ on the cross.
Israel is the servant of God. Israel is a multitude of people which includes Jesus and all the Son of man.

"Israel is my son, my firstborn. Let my son go so he can serve me."


(Israel) " You are my witness, my servant whom I have chosen. "
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top