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Old 01-02-2019, 02:03 PM
 
21,814 posts, read 16,678,731 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
Um, wow, brnd......impressive!!!
Well, you would think so since you don't believe much of what the Bible says. Brndnms' statement that the blood of Christ can't forgive sin shows a complete lack of understanding that 'the blood of Christ' is a metaphor which refers to His spiritual death on the cross. Not to his physical death. As Jesus himself said.
Matthew 26:28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.
He just repeated the same arguments which were already refuted. He denies that the Bible says that Jesus paid the price for our sins while ignoring the fact that the Bible says that Jesus redeemed us. Revelation 5:9 says that Jesus purchased for God with His blood, men from every tribe, tongue, people and nation. He did that by bearing our sins in his own body on the cross as stated in 1 Peter 2:24.

Brndnms spent a great deal of time showing his ignorance and his rejection of what the Bible teaches. He has already been refuted and I'm not wasting time on another of his mile long posts.

Mainstream Christianity believes that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins, not in spite of, but because of what the Bible says. Heretics on the other hand, deny it.

Last edited by Mike555; 01-02-2019 at 02:15 PM..
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Old 01-02-2019, 02:12 PM
 
21,814 posts, read 16,678,731 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sand&Salt View Post
I always thought heaven was up in the air somewhere. Somehow I never learned in church that it will be right here on earth. A new heaven brought down to a new earth. I find that consoling.
In the future heaven will be on earth and the Triune God will make His tabernacle among men in the New Jerusalem. However, at the present time the believer who dies goes to heaven which can't be located as ''up in the air'', but exists probably in some inter-dimensional plane. It's real, but we can't use spatlal co-ordinates to place it.
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Old 01-02-2019, 02:12 PM
 
4,229 posts, read 1,624,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sand&Salt View Post
I always thought heaven was up in the air somewhere. Somehow I never learned in church that it will be right here on earth. A new heaven brought down to a new earth. I find that consoling.


Jesus promised the meek( great multitude) they will inherit the earth( Matthew5:5) The same reality taught by Israel-Psalm 37:9-11,29--The righteous themselves will possess the earth and reside forever upon it. It does not teach anywhere that the great multitude go to heaven--The little flock( Luke12:32)= the bride of Christ= the anointed= 144,000( Revelation 14:3) these are promised heaven. Bought with the blood of Jesus. They will rule alongside side him as kings and priests, separating the sheep from the goats and judgement, even the fallen angels. The new earth = Gods kingdom rule in full control forever, transformed into a Eden( paradise)
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Old 01-02-2019, 06:08 PM
 
30 posts, read 4,504 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Well, you would think so since you don't believe much of what the Bible says. Brndnms' statement that the blood of Christ can't forgive sin shows a complete lack of understanding that 'the blood of Christ' is a metaphor which refers to His spiritual death on the cross. Not to his physical death. As Jesus himself said.
Matthew 26:28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.

Amazingly you can use that verse and not see how it in and of itself shows Christ didn't die to pay the price of anyone's sins. Christ plainly shows his blood was shed for the NC which is the key to forgiveness. What need is a new covenant if Christ paid the penalty of anyone's sin? Why did Peter tell the redeemed Israelites they had to repent and be baptized in order to have the price of their sins paid (Acts 2:38)? If no one had repented and was baptized, then would any sin have been forgiven? I mean His blood would have still be shed, but if no one obeyed Acts 2:38 would there have been forgiveness? I'm not sure what you mean by Christ dying spiritually. Does that mean the God part (Col 2:9) of Christ died also?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
He just repeated the same arguments which were already refuted.
I don't think so! I have taken the time to go through what you have said and I believe I have refuted you. Especially concerning for whom Christ died. I have given much you haven't even acknowledged. Remember, it's not me that's refusing to continue to discuss the topic even though I could claim you're doing what you accuse me of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
He denies that the Bible says that Jesus paid the price for our sins while ignoring the fact that the Bible says that Jesus redeemed us. Revelation 5:9 says that Jesus purchased for God with His blood, men from every tribe, tongue, people and nation. He did that by bearing our sins in his own body on the cross as stated in 1 Peter 2:24.
This is an example of why I show what I believe because you misconstrue Christ's dying to buy back something with dying in the place of something. Yes I do deny the Bible says He died to pay the price of sins. It never says that. It does say Jesus died because of Israel's sins but not to pay the price. If He paid the price of sins the OC would have been fine because the fault did not lie in the Covenant but the people (Heb 8:7-8).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Brndnms spent a great deal of time showing his ignorance and his rejection of what the Bible teaches. He has already been refuted
I suppose this would be a natural reaction by someone who "feels" they are correct and who disagrees with you. I could just as easily say this about you, but what good would it do if I'm not willing to discuss it with you? I believe it was you that first responded to what I said and not vice versa. It was your "choice."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
and I'm not wasting time on another of his mile long posts.
That's your prerogative. I hardly see discussing the Word of God to be a waste of my time even if I'm implied to be a "heretic" or said to be "ignorant." I did apologize for the length of the last post, but as you had already excused yourself from the discussion, I wanted to make sure I thoroughly covered the subject in order to demonstrate why I believe as I do. The Bible is the living Word of God and it takes much discussion as witnessed by the number of people who study it and disagree. You and I are no different. I post what I think is needed and you take it or leave it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Mainstream Christianity believes that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins, not in spite of, but because of what the Bible says. Heretics on the other hand, deny it.
The Bible tells us the "mainstream" will be deceived (Mat 24:5) and that following a multitude is no guarantee you're doing the right thing (Ex 23:2).

Again, I appreciate your responses.
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Old 01-02-2019, 07:28 PM
 
20,357 posts, read 9,819,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Well, you would think so since you don't believe much of what the Bible says. Brndnms' statement that the blood of Christ can't forgive sin shows a complete lack of understanding that 'the blood of Christ' is a metaphor which refers to His spiritual death on the cross. Not to his physical death. As Jesus himself said.
Matthew 26:28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.
He just repeated the same arguments which were already refuted. He denies that the Bible says that Jesus paid the price for our sins while ignoring the fact that the Bible says that Jesus redeemed us. Revelation 5:9 says that Jesus purchased for God with His blood, men from every tribe, tongue, people and nation. He did that by bearing our sins in his own body on the cross as stated in 1 Peter 2:24.

Brndnms spent a great deal of time showing his ignorance and his rejection of what the Bible teaches. He has already been refuted and I'm not wasting time on another of his mile long posts.

Mainstream Christianity believes that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins, not in spite of, but because of what the Bible says. Heretics on the other hand, deny it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brndnms View Post
Amazingly you can use that verse and not see how it in and of itself shows Christ didn't die to pay the price of anyone's sins. Christ plainly shows his blood was shed for the NC which is the key to forgiveness. What need is a new covenant if Christ paid the penalty of anyone's sin? Why did Peter tell the redeemed Israelites they had to repent and be baptized in order to have the price of their sins paid (Acts 2:38)? If no one had repented and was baptized, then would any sin have been forgiven? I mean His blood would have still be shed, but if no one obeyed Acts 2:38 would there have been forgiveness? I'm not sure what you mean by Christ dying spiritually. Does that mean the God part (Col 2:9) of Christ died also?



I don't think so! I have taken the time to go through what you have said and I believe I have refuted you. Especially concerning for whom Christ died. I have given much you haven't even acknowledged. Remember, it's not me that's refusing to continue to discuss the topic even though I could claim you're doing what you accuse me of.



This is an example of why I show what I believe because you misconstrue Christ's dying to buy back something with dying in the place of something. Yes I do deny the Bible says He died to pay the price of sins. It never says that. It does say Jesus died because of Israel's sins but not to pay the price. If He paid the price of sins the OC would have been fine because the fault did not lie in the Covenant but the people (Heb 8:7-8).



I suppose this would be a natural reaction by someone who "feels" they are correct and who disagrees with you. I could just as easily say this about you, but what good would it do if I'm not willing to discuss it with you? I believe it was you that first responded to what I said and not vice versa. It was your "choice."



That's your prerogative. I hardly see discussing the Word of God to be a waste of my time even if I'm implied to be a "heretic" or said to be "ignorant." I did apologize for the length of the last post, but as you had already excused yourself from the discussion, I wanted to make sure I thoroughly covered the subject in order to demonstrate why I believe as I do. The Bible is the living Word of God and it takes much discussion as witnessed by the number of people who study it and disagree. You and I are no different. I post what I think is needed and you take it or leave it.



The Bible tells us the "mainstream" will be deceived (Mat 24:5) and that following a multitude is no guarantee you're doing the right thing (Ex 23:2).

Again, I appreciate your responses.
And, I appreciate you taking the time to write yours.
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Old 01-02-2019, 10:25 PM
 
20,357 posts, read 9,819,192 times
Reputation: 1674
Proverbs 18:5
Showing partiality to the wicked is not good, nor is depriving the innocent of justice.
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Old 01-02-2019, 10:44 PM
 
Location: Panama City, FL
3,139 posts, read 937,711 times
Reputation: 1024
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Well, you would think so since you don't believe much of what the Bible says. Brndnms' statement that the blood of Christ can't forgive sin shows a complete lack of understanding that 'the blood of Christ' is a metaphor which refers to His spiritual death on the cross. Not to his physical death. As Jesus himself said.
Matthew 26:28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.
He just repeated the same arguments which were already refuted. He denies that the Bible says that Jesus paid the price for our sins while ignoring the fact that the Bible says that Jesus redeemed us. Revelation 5:9 says that Jesus purchased for God with His blood, men from every tribe, tongue, people and nation. He did that by bearing our sins in his own body on the cross as stated in 1 Peter 2:24.

Brndnms spent a great deal of time showing his ignorance and his rejection of what the Bible teaches. He has already been refuted and I'm not wasting time on another of his mile long posts.

Mainstream Christianity believes that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins, not in spite of, but because of what the Bible says. Heretics on the other hand, deny it.
You ought to know the bible doesn't say Christ's spirit died. His body and soul died. The Holy Spirit cannot die.
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Old 01-02-2019, 11:10 PM
 
40,043 posts, read 26,725,598 times
Reputation: 6048
Default How can repented sin be acceptable to God?

God is concerned with our state of mind (consciousness) and sin is an unloving state of mind. Sin misses the mark because it is done in an unloving state of mind. As long as your state of mind remains unchanged, you remain in sin. Repentance is a renewing of your state of mind to that of a loving one removing the sin. When you are in a loving state of mind you can NOT sin. That is why Jesus told us to love God and each other every day and repent when we don't.
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Old 01-03-2019, 07:38 AM
 
21,814 posts, read 16,678,731 times
Reputation: 8655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Well, you would think so since you don't believe much of what the Bible says. Brndnms' statement that the blood of Christ can't forgive sin shows a complete lack of understanding that 'the blood of Christ' is a metaphor which refers to His spiritual death on the cross. Not to his physical death. As Jesus himself said.
Matthew 26:28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.
He just repeated the same arguments which were already refuted. He denies that the Bible says that Jesus paid the price for our sins while ignoring the fact that the Bible says that Jesus redeemed us. Revelation 5:9 says that Jesus purchased for God with His blood, men from every tribe, tongue, people and nation. He did that by bearing our sins in his own body on the cross as stated in 1 Peter 2:24.

Brndnms spent a great deal of time showing his ignorance and his rejection of what the Bible teaches. He has already been refuted and I'm not wasting time on another of his mile long posts.

Mainstream Christianity believes that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins, not in spite of, but because of what the Bible says. Heretics on the other hand, deny it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMusic View Post
You ought to know the bible doesn't say Christ's spirit died. His body and soul died. The Holy Spirit cannot die.
The spiritual death of Jesus does not mean that His spirit died. His spiritual death refers to the fact that while He was being judged for our sins He was judicially separated from the Father. During the time he was paying the penalty for our sins, the relationship between the Father and Jesus had to be broken. That's why Jesus cried out in fulfillment of Psalm 22:1, ''My God, my God, why have You forsaken me?

While Jesus is both fully God and fully man he did not die as God. Deity is not subject to death. He died spiritually, and once he had paid the penalty for our sins, he died physically. But since Jesus is also God, his spiritual death as a man (his separation from God) during the three hours he was being judged for our sins, had infinite value.

And no, Jesus' soul did not die. Physical death is the separation of the soul from the body. The soul does not cease to exist.

Last edited by Mike555; 01-03-2019 at 07:58 AM..
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Old 01-03-2019, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
15,358 posts, read 12,119,741 times
Reputation: 16598
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMusic View Post
You ought to know the bible doesn't say Christ's spirit died. His body and soul died. The Holy Spirit cannot die.
His soul died? What? Could you explain that one?
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