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Jesus willingly gave up his life. Jesus did not do his own will, rather, he did the Father's will and was obedient unto death. Jesus died. He poured out his soul unto death. Jesus did suffer -- his soul suffered and his body. But I agree with you God never left him. He had the spiritual strength from his Father to give his life up in the manner fore-ordained. Would you be willing to give up your life for anything, particularly if our Heavenly Father asked you to? We should all be able to answer yes to that. We are not supposed to love our lives (in this world) and run from death when it is our time to die.
The fact that Yeshua asked God to take this cup from me, kind of says he didn't want to drink from that cup. The fact that you think God didn't answer his prayer, kind of begs the question, how do you think you are going to get your prayers answered?
The fact that Yeshua asked God to take this cup from me, kind of says he didn't want to drink from that cup.
The fact that you think God didn't answer his prayer, kind of begs the question, how do you
think you are going to get your prayers answered?
Good point and a good question. There are different types of prayers.
Example, say, the prayer Jesus made to raise Lazarus... a prayer of a faith.
John 11:41-...."Lazarus, Come forth!"
While in Gethsemane, O my Father, if it is possible,....nevertheless...as You will.
(In other words, If it is part of the Plan....ok... don't listen to what I'd prefer...I give myself to Your Will.)
Different type of prayer. Matt 26 This was a prayer of dedication....of consecration.
Definition: solemn dedication to a special purpose....usually religious.
I must agree with you. When Christ was hanging on the "cross" He said several things. He was surrounded by Hs people who viewed His crucifixion from afar (Luke 23:49). As they viewed the obvious torture their God was being subjected to they had to be very dejected, depressed and despirited. I believe this is why Jesus began to cite in a loud voice (so His people viewing from afar could hear) Psalms 22 (Mat 27:46; Mark 15:24). Why? Because the Psalms were used to uplift (Eph 5:18-19).
While Psalms 22 starts out seemingly depressing, it ends with hope. In this song of David's we see him describing the human nature side of him in describing his lack of faith as he "feels" God has forsaken him (vv. 1-2). He then begins to recall that God is the God whom his people Israel called on and He delivered (vv. 3-5). He then displays his low sef-esteem implying he's too lowly for God to help (vv. 6-8).
He then begins to describe how he views the position he is in because of his enemies (vv. 9-18). He then begins praying for God's help (v.19-21). He then says because God will help him he will praise Him (v. 22). He tells his people to praise Him (v. 23). He then says something that proves Christ was not saying God had forsaken Him:
KJV Psalm 22:24 FOR HE HATH NOT DESPISED NOR ABHORRED THE AFFLICTION OF THE AFFLICTED; NEITHER HATH HE HID HIS FACE FROM HIM; BUT WHEN HE CRIED UNTO HIM, HE HEARD.
He then sings God's praises as his people's Savior forever (vv. 25-31).
No! God did not abandon Christ. Christ, even in His suffering was giving hope and joy to His people who were there, no doubt watching His death in horror. One thing that is telling is that Christ was not speaking to God the Father directly because He always, without exception referred to Him as "Father."
The Scriptures do not show Christ quoted more than the first part of Psalms 22:1. It would be understandable if that was all He quoted because breathing in that situation had to be difficult. But His people would have known that psalm from that quote and would have known that it gave great encouragement and succor and no doubt was much needed in this dark hour for them.
Rather than Christ's quoting of Psalms 22 saying God forsook Him, it does quite the opposite.
He then says something that proves Christ was not saying God had forsaken Him:
KJV Psalm 22:24 FOR HE HATH NOT DESPISED NOR ABHORRED THE AFFLICTION OF THE AFFLICTED; NEITHER HATH HE HID HIS FACE FROM HIM; BUT WHEN HE CRIED UNTO HIM, HE HEARD.
No! God did not abandon Christ.
Rather than Christ's quoting of Psalms 22 saying God forsook Him,
it does quite the opposite.
He then begins to describe how he views the position he is in because of his enemies (vv. 9-18). He then begins praying for God's help (v.19-21). He then says because God will help him he will praise Him (v. 22). He tells his people to praise Him (v. 23). He then says something that proves Christ was not saying God had forsaken Him:
KJV Psalm 22:24 FOR HE HATH NOT DESPISED NOR ABHORRED THE AFFLICTION OF THE AFFLICTED; NEITHER HATH HE HID HIS FACE FROM HIM; BUT WHEN HE CRIED UNTO HIM, HE HEARD.
He then sings God's praises as his people's Savior forever (vv. 25-31). .
Excellent points!. Of cause it seemingly looked like he was forsaken, he had to have that human moment of feeling the illusion of separation we have all felt at some point, but how can separation be a reality when David said "if i make my bed in hell you are there, where shall i go to flea from you presence ?".
This is what God throughout scripture is saying, wherever you are and in whatever situation no matter how dire it may be, i am right there with you, i will never leave you nor forsake you, i am ever present for you to raise you above it.
Excellent points!. Of cause it seemingly looked like he was forsaken, he had to have that human moment of feeling the illusion of separation we have all felt at some point, but how can separation be a reality when David said "if i make my bed in hell you are there, where shall i go to flea from you presence ?".
This is what God throughout scripture is saying, wherever you are and in whatever situation no matter how dire it may be, i am right there with you, i will never leave you nor forsake you, i am ever present for you to raise you above it.
Yes, I believe where things get mixed up is comparing apples and oranges
Jesus came/comes to Pharisees to judge Pharisees
He came/comes to the afflicted to give comfort
He didn’t die physically to be a sacrifice for individual Christians, which is what mainstream Christianity think, then they get diverted in to believing in Satan, eternal torment, etc
He was/is killed by any self-righteous person/nation/religion who did/does not want to give up their traditions and give mercy, correct judgement
Individually our sacrifice is our nature that is not like CHRIST
the same as all religions/nations will need to sacrifice their nature that is not like CHRIST
I believe that is the principalities, powers etc that are meant here
The Preeminence of Christ
Col 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God, the First-born of all creation.
Col 1:16 For all things were created in Him, the things in the heavens, and the things on the earth, the visible and the invisible; whether thrones, or lordships, or rulers, or authorities, all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Col 1:17 And He is before all things, and all things have subsisted in Him.
Col 1:18 And He is the Head of the body, the assembly, who is the Beginning, the First-born out of the dead, that He be preeminent in all things;
All things flesh. All things spirit
1Co 15:22 for as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ, the firstfruit; afterward those of Christ at His coming.
1Co 15:24 Then is the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God, even the Father, when He makes to cease all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For it is right for Him to reign until He puts all the hostile ones under His feet; Psa. 110:1
1Co 15:26 the last hostile thing made to cease is death.
I must agree with you. When Christ was hanging on the "cross" He said several things. He was surrounded by Hs people who viewed His crucifixion from afar (Luke 23:49). As they viewed the obvious torture their God was being subjected to they had to be very dejected, depressed and despirited. I believe this is why Jesus began to cite in a loud voice (so His people viewing from afar could hear) Psalms 22 (Mat 27:46; Mark 15:24). Why? Because the Psalms were used to uplift (Eph 5:18-19).
While Psalms 22 starts out seemingly depressing, it ends with hope. In this song of David's we see him describing the human nature side of him in describing his lack of faith as he "feels" God has forsaken him (vv. 1-2). He then begins to recall that God is the God whom his people Israel called on and He delivered (vv. 3-5). He then displays his low sef-esteem implying he's too lowly for God to help (vv. 6-8).
He then begins to describe how he views the position he is in because of his enemies (vv. 9-18). He then begins praying for God's help (v.19-21). He then says because God will help him he will praise Him (v. 22). He tells his people to praise Him (v. 23). He then says something that proves Christ was not saying God had forsaken Him:
KJV Psalm 22:24 FOR HE HATH NOT DESPISED NOR ABHORRED THE AFFLICTION OF THE AFFLICTED; NEITHER HATH HE HID HIS FACE FROM HIM; BUT WHEN HE CRIED UNTO HIM, HE HEARD.
He then sings God's praises as his people's Savior forever (vv. 25-31).
No! God did not abandon Christ. Christ, even in His suffering was giving hope and joy to His people who were there, no doubt watching His death in horror. One thing that is telling is that Christ was not speaking to God the Father directly because He always, without exception referred to Him as "Father."
The Scriptures do not show Christ quoted more than the first part of Psalms 22:1. It would be understandable if that was all He quoted because breathing in that situation had to be difficult. But His people would have known that psalm from that quote and would have known that it gave great encouragement and succor and no doubt was much needed in this dark hour for them.
Rather than Christ's quoting of Psalms 22 saying God forsook Him, it does quite the opposite.
The Father forsaking Jesus on the cross is backed up by this passage.
Galatians 3:13
“Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”
The Father forsaking Jesus on the cross is backed up by this passage.
Galatians 3:13
“Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”
Did you know the mark God put on Cain when he was banished into the land of Nod was the imprint of himself?. The idea is we enter the land of Nod and we keep focused on the mark until we come to the realization and wake in this life of the land of Nod, that God was always present and abundantly available to be called up on. I wll never leave you nor forsake was not something God decided to impress on man years after he created us. Even in the cursed state God is there. Hope that makes you feel better jimmie about all your loved ones who pass and don't believe your beliefs about God.
Of cause this is just Camps just making it up as he goes along.
The Father forsaking Jesus on the cross is backed up by this passage.
Galatians 3:13
“Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”
That you think God would forsake anyone, let alone Jesus, is the saddest thing I can think of for a Christian.
I must agree with you. When Christ was hanging on the "cross" He said several things. He was surrounded by Hs people who viewed His crucifixion from afar (Luke 23:49). As they viewed the obvious torture their God was being subjected to they had to be very dejected, depressed and despirited. I believe this is why Jesus began to cite in a loud voice (so His people viewing from afar could hear) Psalms 22 (Mat 27:46; Mark 15:24). Why? Because the Psalms were used to uplift (Eph 5:18-19).
While Psalms 22 starts out seemingly depressing, it ends with hope. In this song of David's we see him describing the human nature side of him in describing his lack of faith as he "feels" God has forsaken him (vv. 1-2). He then begins to recall that God is the God whom his people Israel called on and He delivered (vv. 3-5). He then displays his low sef-esteem implying he's too lowly for God to help (vv. 6-8).
He then begins to describe how he views the position he is in because of his enemies (vv. 9-18). He then begins praying for God's help (v.19-21). He then says because God will help him he will praise Him (v. 22). He tells his people to praise Him (v. 23). He then says something that proves Christ was not saying God had forsaken Him:
KJV Psalm 22:24 FOR HE HATH NOT DESPISED NOR ABHORRED THE AFFLICTION OF THE AFFLICTED; NEITHER HATH HE HID HIS FACE FROM HIM; BUT WHEN HE CRIED UNTO HIM, HE HEARD.
He then sings God's praises as his people's Savior forever (vv. 25-31).
No! God did not abandon Christ. Christ, even in His suffering was giving hope and joy to His people who were there, no doubt watching His death in horror. One thing that is telling is that Christ was not speaking to God the Father directly because He always, without exception referred to Him as "Father."
The Scriptures do not show Christ quoted more than the first part of Psalms 22:1. It would be understandable if that was all He quoted because breathing in that situation had to be difficult. But His people would have known that psalm from that quote and would have known that it gave great encouragement and succor and no doubt was much needed in this dark hour for them.
Rather than Christ's quoting of Psalms 22 saying God forsook Him, it does quite the opposite.
I have no doubt that what people follow is the Church and the ministers of the hell doctrines, not Christ Jesus himself.
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