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Old 11-04-2018, 06:41 AM
 
Location: minnesota
6,358 posts, read 2,131,812 times
Reputation: 2173

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
He created us with free will. What other option was there?
I had to think on this a bit. I came up with 1 in under a half an hour and I can imagine God had other options at his disposal.

He could have created us with the ability to see the outcomes of our actions perfectly without ignorance so we can really choose the best course. If Adam and Eve had it to do over again do you think they would eat the fruit? My guess is no because Eve was deceived.
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Old 11-04-2018, 06:50 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
15,441 posts, read 12,170,934 times
Reputation: 16655
This might interest this group drawn to 'forgiveness'....I believe it was the Howard Storm NDE....if not
it was someone kinda mean like him in life...while in the Life Review there is a scene where he is mean
to someone 'again', as you may know, you feeeeel what you did to the person....there's Jesus to his right
and Jesus says, something like, "Yes, you were mean here....but I know why you did that , you were treated so badly
that time as a child and it really effected you."


Enough said.
Howard Storm was an 'active' atheist....he is now a Pastor.
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Old 11-04-2018, 07:11 AM
 
Location: minnesota
6,358 posts, read 2,131,812 times
Reputation: 2173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
This might interest this group drawn to 'forgiveness'....I believe it was the Howard Storm NDE....if not
it was someone kinda mean like him in life...while in the Life Review there is a scene where he is mean
to someone 'again', as you may know, you feeeeel what you did to the person....there's Jesus to his right
and Jesus says, something like, "Yes, you were mean here....but I know why you did that , you were treated so badly
that time as a child and it really effected you."



Enough said.
Howard Storm was an 'active' atheist....he is now a Pastor.
I love this thought. I think that's they key to accepting the divine within ourselves. First we have to accept the human part that acts without thinking and screws up. I post this whenever I get a chance because it helped me so much(and I need a refresher...the "world" and all). It's Tao and not Christianity but when out this way it was easier for me to understand than they way the Bible puts it.

Quote:
The Taoists have a famous teaching about an empty boat that rams into your boat in the middle of a river. While you probably wouldnít be angry at an empty boat, you might well become enraged if someone were at its helm.
The point of the story is that the parents who didnít see you, the other kids who teased you as a child, the driver who aggressively tailgated you yesterday Ė are all in fact empty, rudderless boats. They were compulsively driven to act as they did by their own unexamined wounds, therefore they did not know what they were doing and had little control over it.

Just as an empty boat that rams into us isnít targeting us, so too people who act unkindly are driven along by the unconscious force of their own wounding and pain.

Until we realize this, we will remain prisoners of our grievance, our past, and our victim identity, all of which keep us from opening to the more powerful currents of life and love that are always flowing through the present moment.
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Old 11-04-2018, 07:14 AM
 
Location: USA
15,906 posts, read 8,183,357 times
Reputation: 2103
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
I love this thought. I think that's they key to accepting the divine within ourselves. First we have to accept the human part that acts without thinking and screws up. I post this whenever I get a chance because it helped me so much(and I need a refresher...the "world" and all). It's Tao and not Christianity but when out this way it was easier for me to understand than they way the Bible puts it.


Quote:
The Taoists have a famous teaching about an empty boat that rams into your boat in the middle of a river. While you probably wouldnít be angry at an empty boat, you might well become enraged if someone were at its helm.
The point of the story is that the parents who didnít see you, the other kids who teased you as a child, the driver who aggressively tailgated you yesterday Ė are all in fact empty, rudderless boats. They were compulsively driven to act as they did by their own unexamined wounds, therefore they did not know what they were doing and had little control over it.

Just as an empty boat that rams into us isnít targeting us, so too people who act unkindly are driven along by the unconscious force of their own wounding and pain.

Until we realize this, we will remain prisoners of our grievance, our past, and our victim identity, all of which keep us from opening to the more powerful currents of life and love that are always flowing through the present moment.

Thanks for sharing that L8.
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Old 11-04-2018, 07:20 AM
 
Location: minnesota
6,358 posts, read 2,131,812 times
Reputation: 2173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Thanks for sharing that L8.
You're welcome. I'd like to hear your add to that. I added to that sometimes I was the empty boat ramming others so it's all a wash in the end. Holding onto my ramming of others was holding on to my being rammed and vise versa.
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Old 11-04-2018, 07:22 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
15,441 posts, read 12,170,934 times
Reputation: 16655
L8, thanks for posting ...you really 'got it'. And I know that empty boat story...
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Old 11-04-2018, 07:23 AM
 
107 posts, read 22,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan85 View Post
We are not capable of forgiving serious offenses without Jesus help. My ex wife helped put me in prison, and did everything she could to ruin my life. I wanted to kill her, and her boyfriend. This catastrophe led me to give my life to Christ. Yet, I still had a very difficult time forgiving her. I was told to ask His help in forgiving, and to pray for her. It took years, but I no longer have any desire for vengeance, nor do I wish her bad. Recognizing all He has forgiven me for helped, as well as simply choosing to not dwell on her or what happened. If not for Jesus influence, I would not have forgiven them, and may have tried to take revenge. That was 21 years ago, and I haven't had contact with her since. I forgive, but I don't think God wants us to go back to ingesting poison again. Her life has long since been ruined, while mine has gotten 1000% better- not because of me- but because of Jesus!




"We are not capable?" You should speak only for yourself, YOU, were not capable of forgiving, but many others are, without the aid of supernatural intervention. I am happy you found it in your heart to forgive, its a very powerful healing force, but the force is not other worldly, forgiveness is a function of an open human heart.
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Old 11-04-2018, 07:31 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
2,186 posts, read 793,409 times
Reputation: 1004
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
He created us with free will. What other option was there?
Creating us with freewill is senseless when you already know the future. It would be horrific beyond belief for a creator to knowingly create beings knowing he will punish them in a hell for eternity. How you canít grasp this is mind boggling.
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Old 11-04-2018, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
15,441 posts, read 12,170,934 times
Reputation: 16655
Quote:
Originally Posted by maat55 View Post
Creating us with freewill is senseless when you already know the future. It would be horrific beyond belief for a creator to knowingly create beings knowing he will punish them in a hell for eternity. How you can’t grasp this is mind boggling.
BUT, that free will to make a different choice than we did last time is the Wild Card!!

Like George getting the tuna on rye and saying to the girl, "I live with my parents and am unemployed..."
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Old 11-04-2018, 08:04 AM
 
107 posts, read 22,957 times
Reputation: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
BUT, that free will to make a different choice than we did last time is the Wild Card!!

Like George getting the tuna on rye and saying to the girl, "I live with my parents and am unemployed..."


Miss Hepburn, I see you are a Seinfeld fan, me to.
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