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Old 11-04-2018, 05:08 PM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Actually, the 'I am' statement of Jesus in John 8:58 would seem to identify Jesus with the 'I am' statements of God in Isaiah 41:4: 43:10, 12, 13; 44:6; 45:5,7,18,22; and 48:12.

For instance, the Septuagint translates Isaiah 41:4 into Greek as
4 τίς ἐνήργησε καὶ ἐποίησε ταῦτα; ἐκάλεσεν αὐτὴν ὁ καλῶν αὐτὴν ἀπὸ γενεῶν ἀρχῆς· ἐγὼ Θεὸς πρῶτος, καὶ εἰς τὰ ἐπερχόμενα ἐγώ εἰμι.

4 Who has wrought and done these things? he has called it who called it from the generations of old; I God, the first and to [all] futurity, I AM.

https://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/gree...ook=43&page=41
And Isaiah 43;10
10 γίνεσθέ μοι μάρτυρες, καὶ ἐγὼ μάρτυς, λέγει Κύριος ὁ Θεός, καὶ ὁ παῖς μου, ὃν ἐξελεξάμην, ἵνα γνῶτε καὶ πιστεύσητε καὶ συνῆτε ὅτι ἐγώ εἰμι.

10 Be ye my witnesses, and I [too am] a witness, saith the Lord God, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know, and believe, and understand that I an [he]: before me there was no other God, and after me there shall be none.

https://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/gree...ook=43&page=43
ἐγώ εἰμι translates as 'I am' and is used in John 8:58.

In some of the verses I mentioned, the word εἰμι is not present, but the word ἐγώ which is the first person singular personal pronoun 'I' is sufficient to provide the meaning of 'I am' and is so translated into the English.
Try the Hebrew...
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Old 11-04-2018, 05:24 PM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
It's noteworthy that the translators of the Hebrew Bible into the Greek Septuagint translated Exodus 3:14 as
14 καὶ εἶπεν ὁ Θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν λέγων· ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν. καὶ εἶπεν· οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς ᾿Ισραήλ· ὁ ὢν ἀπέσταλκέ με πρὸς ὑμᾶς.

14 And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you.

https://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/gree...?book=2&page=3
As you may know, the Hellenistic Jews of the 2nd and 1st centuries BC could no longer read the Hebrew language which necessitated translating the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek so that the Hellenistic Jews could understand their Scriptures. Over a period of time the entire Tanakh was therefore translated into Greek.

The translator(s) of Exodus chose to translate Exodus 3:14 into the Greek as ἐγώ εἰμι which is 'I am.'
And the Latin “Ego sum quite sum”, I am that I am”...But the Hebrew says, אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה, I will be who I will be...This is what it says in Hebrew...The Greek ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν says “I am the one” tell them ὁ ὤν, The One has sent you...All Jesus was reported to say is “ἐγώ εἰμι”, I am...
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Old 11-04-2018, 05:37 PM
 
22,009 posts, read 16,770,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Actually, the 'I am' statement of Jesus in John 8:58 would seem to identify Jesus with the 'I am' statements of God in Isaiah 41:4: 43:10, 12, 13; 44:6; 45:5,7,18,22; and 48:12.

For instance, the Septuagint translates Isaiah 41:4 into Greek as
4 τίς ἐνήργησε καὶ ἐποίησε ταῦτα; ἐκάλεσεν αὐτὴν ὁ καλῶν αὐτὴν ἀπὸ γενεῶν ἀρχῆς· ἐγὼ Θεὸς πρῶτος, καὶ εἰς τὰ ἐπερχόμενα ἐγώ εἰμι.

4 Who has wrought and done these things? he has called it who called it from the generations of old; I God, the first and to [all] futurity, I AM.

https://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/gree...ook=43&page=41
And Isaiah 43;10
10 γίνεσθέ μοι μάρτυρες, καὶ ἐγὼ μάρτυς, λέγει Κύριος ὁ Θεός, καὶ ὁ παῖς μου, ὃν ἐξελεξάμην, ἵνα γνῶτε καὶ πιστεύσητε καὶ συνῆτε ὅτι ἐγώ εἰμι.

10 Be ye my witnesses, and I [too am] a witness, saith the Lord God, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know, and believe, and understand that I an [he]: before me there was no other God, and after me there shall be none.

https://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/gree...ook=43&page=43
ἐγώ εἰμι translates as 'I am' and is used in John 8:58.

In some of the verses I mentioned, the word εἰμι is not present, but the word ἐγώ which is the first person singular personal pronoun 'I' is sufficient to provide the meaning of 'I am' and is so translated into the English.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Try the Hebrew...
The translators (who knew the Hebrew language) of the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek already did, and chose to translate those verses as ἐγώ εἰμι - 'I am.' The Septuagint was the Bible that the Hellenistic Jews used.

By the way, in verses such as Isaiah 41:4 the Hebrew words which were translated into Greek in the Septuagint as ἐγώ εἰμι is ’ă·nî- hū - 'I [am] He.'

Concerning Jesus' 'I am' statement in John 8:58, Scholar F. F. Bruce stated,
''And if we suppose that the conversation was carried on in Aramaic or even in Hebrew, then Jesus could have uttered the very words 'ănî- hū, as though he were applying them to himself.

The Gospel of John, F. F. Bruce, Introduction, Exposition, and Notes, p. 206
In a different context, that of Genesis 45:3, Joseph is saying to his brothers, ’ă·nî' - I [am] Joseph. He did not say, I will be Joseph. He said, I am Joseph. Actually the word 'am' has to be supplied, but the meaning is obvious. I Joseph = I am Joseph. He will not become Joseph at a later time. He has always been, and is Joseph.

Last edited by Mike555; 11-04-2018 at 06:28 PM..
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Old 11-04-2018, 06:05 PM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
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To Richard, since it is the Lord Jesus, the I AM, (the Being), who spoke to Moses concering his Name in exodus 3:14 . that reconcile John 1:3 with Isaiah 44:24.

see how easy it is to answer a question......
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Old 11-04-2018, 06:57 PM
 
22,009 posts, read 16,770,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
Glad this is brought out. "I AM" the BEING" is not a PERSONAL NAME. "BEING" is what he is and NOT who he is in Name.

so those false name like Jehovah and Yahweh derived from the tetragrammaton, which is a VERB is just that false, man made.
Strong's Concordance
Yhvh: the proper name of the God of Israel
Original Word: יְהוָֹה
Part of Speech: Proper Name
Transliteration: Yhvh
Phonetic Spelling: (yeh-ho-vaw')
Definition: the proper name of the God of Israel

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from havah
Definition
the proper name of the God of Israel

https://biblehub.com/hebrew/3068.htm


Yahweh
The Tetragrammaton (Greek meaning word with four letters) is the usual reference to the Hebrew name for God, which is transliterated from the Hebrew as YHWH -- four consonants with no vowels; it is the distinctive personal name of the God of Israel. The popular vocalized form of YHWH is Yahweh.

Of all the names of God, the one which occurs most frequently is the Tetragrammaton. The Biblia Hebraica texts each contain the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) 6,828 times.

In Judaism, the Tetragrammaton is the ineffable name of God, and is not read aloud. In the reading aloud of the scripture or in prayer, it is replaced with Adonai (Lord). Other written forms such as ד׳ or ה׳ are read as Hashem (the Name), for the same reason.

https://www.theopedia.com/yahweh


YHWH.
''Of the names of God in the Old Testament, that which occurs most frequently (6,823 times) is the so-called Tetragrammaton, Yhwh (), the distinctive personal name of the God of Israel.''

''In appearance, Yhwh () is the third person singular imperfect "ḳal" of the verb ("to be"), meaning, therefore, "He is," or "He will be," or, perhaps, "He lives," the root idea of the word being,probably, "to blow," "to breathe," and hence, "to live." With this explanation agrees the meaning of the name given in Ex. iii. 14, where God is represented as speaking, and hence as using the first person—"I am" (, from , the later equivalent of the archaic stem ). The meaning would, therefore, be "He who is self-existing, self-sufficient," or, more concretely, "He who lives," the abstract conception of pure existence being foreign to Hebrew thought. There is no doubt that the idea of life was intimately connected with the name Yhwh from early times. He is the living God, as contrasted with the lifeless gods of the heathen, and He is the source and author of life (comp. I Kings xviii.; Isa. xli. 26-29, xliv. 6-20; Jer. x. 10, 14; Gen. ii. 7; etc.). So familiar is this conception of God to the Hebrew mind that it appears in the common formula of an oath, "ḥai Yhwh" (= "as Yhwh lives"; Ruth iii. 13; I Sam. xiv. 45; etc.).''

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/ar...5-names-of-god

So while you may disagree with it, YHWH, whether vocalized as Yahweh or not, is recognized as the personal name of God.

Last edited by Mike555; 11-04-2018 at 07:08 PM..
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Old 11-05-2018, 05:12 AM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,671 posts, read 1,544,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Strong's Concordance
Yhvh: the proper name of the God of Israel
Original Word: יְהוָֹה
Part of Speech: Proper Name
Transliteration: Yhvh
Phonetic Spelling: (yeh-ho-vaw')
Definition: the proper name of the God of Israel

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from havah
Definition
the proper name of the God of Israel

https://biblehub.com/hebrew/3068.htm


Yahweh
The Tetragrammaton (Greek meaning word with four letters) is the usual reference to the Hebrew name for God, which is transliterated from the Hebrew as YHWH -- four consonants with no vowels; it is the distinctive personal name of the God of Israel. The popular vocalized form of YHWH is Yahweh.

Of all the names of God, the one which occurs most frequently is the Tetragrammaton. The Biblia Hebraica texts each contain the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) 6,828 times.

In Judaism, the Tetragrammaton is the ineffable name of God, and is not read aloud. In the reading aloud of the scripture or in prayer, it is replaced with Adonai (Lord). Other written forms such as ד׳ or ה׳ are read as Hashem (the Name), for the same reason.

https://www.theopedia.com/yahweh


YHWH.
''Of the names of God in the Old Testament, that which occurs most frequently (6,823 times) is the so-called Tetragrammaton, Yhwh (), the distinctive personal name of the God of Israel.''

''In appearance, Yhwh () is the third person singular imperfect "ḳal" of the verb ("to be"), meaning, therefore, "He is," or "He will be," or, perhaps, "He lives," the root idea of the word being,probably, "to blow," "to breathe," and hence, "to live." With this explanation agrees the meaning of the name given in Ex. iii. 14, where God is represented as speaking, and hence as using the first person—"I am" (, from , the later equivalent of the archaic stem ). The meaning would, therefore, be "He who is self-existing, self-sufficient," or, more concretely, "He who lives," the abstract conception of pure existence being foreign to Hebrew thought. There is no doubt that the idea of life was intimately connected with the name Yhwh from early times. He is the living God, as contrasted with the lifeless gods of the heathen, and He is the source and author of life (comp. I Kings xviii.; Isa. xli. 26-29, xliv. 6-20; Jer. x. 10, 14; Gen. ii. 7; etc.). So familiar is this conception of God to the Hebrew mind that it appears in the common formula of an oath, "ḥai Yhwh" (= "as Yhwh lives"; Ruth iii. 13; I Sam. xiv. 45; etc.).''

NAMES OF GOD - JewishEncyclopedia.com

So while you may disagree with it, YHWH, whether vocalized as Yahweh or not, is recognized as the personal name of God.
GINOLJC, to all.

Yes, we must disagree with it. one thing mike is the tetragrammaton a Noun or a verb?

H3068 יְהוֹוָה Yhovah (yeh-ho-vaw') n/p.
1. (the) self-Existent or Eternal
2. Jehovah, Jewish national name of God
3. (anglicized) Jehovah.
4. (as a name prefix) Yeho-.
5. (As expressed in Hebraic Koine Greek) ἐγώ εἰμί, I AM (literally: I myself, I am).
[from H1961]
KJV: Jehovah, the Lord.

did one see, or notice where this root for the Jewish national name of God come from?. it comes from H1961 הָיָה hayah (haw-yaw) v. which is “I AM”.
1. to exist
2. to be or become
3. to come into being, i.e. to happen, to occur (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary

now mike, are verbs PROPER NAMES, meaning PERSONAL NAMES yes or no. I'll be looking for your answer. .
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Old 11-05-2018, 06:23 AM
 
22,009 posts, read 16,770,811 times
Reputation: 8785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Strong's Concordance
Yhvh: the proper name of the God of Israel
Original Word: יְהוָֹה
Part of Speech: Proper Name
Transliteration: Yhvh
Phonetic Spelling: (yeh-ho-vaw')
Definition: the proper name of the God of Israel

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from havah
Definition
the proper name of the God of Israel

https://biblehub.com/hebrew/3068.htm


Yahweh
The Tetragrammaton (Greek meaning word with four letters) is the usual reference to the Hebrew name for God, which is transliterated from the Hebrew as YHWH -- four consonants with no vowels; it is the distinctive personal name of the God of Israel. The popular vocalized form of YHWH is Yahweh.

Of all the names of God, the one which occurs most frequently is the Tetragrammaton. The Biblia Hebraica texts each contain the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) 6,828 times.

In Judaism, the Tetragrammaton is the ineffable name of God, and is not read aloud. In the reading aloud of the scripture or in prayer, it is replaced with Adonai (Lord). Other written forms such as ד׳ or ה׳ are read as Hashem (the Name), for the same reason.

https://www.theopedia.com/yahweh


YHWH.
''Of the names of God in the Old Testament, that which occurs most frequently (6,823 times) is the so-called Tetragrammaton, Yhwh (), the distinctive personal name of the God of Israel.''

''In appearance, Yhwh () is the third person singular imperfect "ḳal" of the verb ("to be"), meaning, therefore, "He is," or "He will be," or, perhaps, "He lives," the root idea of the word being,probably, "to blow," "to breathe," and hence, "to live." With this explanation agrees the meaning of the name given in Ex. iii. 14, where God is represented as speaking, and hence as using the first person—"I am" (, from , the later equivalent of the archaic stem ). The meaning would, therefore, be "He who is self-existing, self-sufficient," or, more concretely, "He who lives," the abstract conception of pure existence being foreign to Hebrew thought. There is no doubt that the idea of life was intimately connected with the name Yhwh from early times. He is the living God, as contrasted with the lifeless gods of the heathen, and He is the source and author of life (comp. I Kings xviii.; Isa. xli. 26-29, xliv. 6-20; Jer. x. 10, 14; Gen. ii. 7; etc.). So familiar is this conception of God to the Hebrew mind that it appears in the common formula of an oath, "ḥai Yhwh" (= "as Yhwh lives"; Ruth iii. 13; I Sam. xiv. 45; etc.).''

NAMES OF GOD - JewishEncyclopedia.com

So while you may disagree with it, YHWH, whether vocalized as Yahweh or not, is recognized as the personal name of God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
GINOLJC, to all.

Yes, we must disagree with it. one thing mike is the tetragrammaton a Noun or a verb?

H3068 יְהוֹוָה Yhovah (yeh-ho-vaw') n/p.
1. (the) self-Existent or Eternal
2. Jehovah, Jewish national name of God
3. (anglicized) Jehovah.
4. (as a name prefix) Yeho-.
5. (As expressed in Hebraic Koine Greek) ἐγώ εἰμί, I AM (literally: I myself, I am).
[from H1961]
KJV: Jehovah, the Lord.

did one see, or notice where this root for the Jewish national name of God come from?. it comes from H1961 הָיָה hayah (haw-yaw) v. which is “I AM”.
1. to exist
2. to be or become
3. to come into being, i.e. to happen, to occur (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary

now mike, are verbs PROPER NAMES, meaning PERSONAL NAMES yes or no. I'll be looking for your answer. .
Someone asked you on another thread why you use the word 'we.' You responded with something like you were referring to the Holy Spirit. So now you are claiming that the Holy Spirit agrees with your opinions. That's a bit arrogant.

Yahweh is a personal name. That means that Yahweh is a proper noun.
More Definitions for Yahweh
Yahweh noun
English Language Learners Definition of Yahweh
—used as the name of God by the ancient Hebrews and in the Old Testament of the Bible

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Yahweh
Now, here is a scholar's answer to your question.
Dear Ask a Scholar,

If Elohim refers to multiple 'gods,' then Yhwh Elohim really means Lord of Gods...the one of many, right?

- Boyd Stough, College of Charleston

Answered by Mark D. Futato, Robert L. Maclellan Professor of Old Testament and Academic Dean at Reformed Theological Seminary in Orlando. Dr. Futato received his Ph.D. and M.A. in Semitic Languages from the Catholic University of America. He specializes in Hebrew language and is author of the book Beginning Biblical Hebrew (Eisenbrauns, 2003).

Let's take a look at the meaning of YHWH Elohim.

First, YHWH is a proper noun, the personal name of Israel's deity. Second, Elohim is a common noun, used to refer to deity. [Bolding mine]

https://www.nas.org/articles/Ask_a_S...WH_Elohim_Mean
And so once again, despite your opinion, experts recognize that the word Yahweh is a personal name and a proper noun.

And with that, I'm done discussing the matter with you.
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Old 11-05-2018, 06:38 AM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,671 posts, read 1,544,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Someone asked you on another thread why you use the word 'we.' You responded with something like you were referring to the Holy Spirit. So now you are claiming that the Holy Spirit agrees with your opinions. That's a bit arrogant.

Yahweh is a personal name. That means that Yahweh is a proper noun.
More Definitions for Yahweh
Yahweh noun
English Language Learners Definition of Yahweh
—used as the name of God by the ancient Hebrews and in the Old Testament of the Bible

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Yahweh
Now, here is a scholar's answer to your question.
Dear Ask a Scholar,

If Elohim refers to multiple 'gods,' then Yhwh Elohim really means Lord of Gods...the one of many, right?

- Boyd Stough, College of Charleston

Answered by Mark D. Futato, Robert L. Maclellan Professor of Old Testament and Academic Dean at Reformed Theological Seminary in Orlando. Dr. Futato received his Ph.D. and M.A. in Semitic Languages from the Catholic University of America. He specializes in Hebrew language and is author of the book Beginning Biblical Hebrew (Eisenbrauns, 2003).

Let's take a look at the meaning of YHWH Elohim.

First, YHWH is a proper noun, the personal name of Israel's deity. Second, Elohim is a common noun, used to refer to deity. [Bolding mine]

https://www.nas.org/articles/Ask_a_S...WH_Elohim_Mean
And so once again, despite your opinion, experts recognize that the word Yahweh is a personal name and a proper noun.

And with that, I'm done discussing the matter with you.
First thanks for the response, second, no it's not arrogant. JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION, is H3068 יְהוֹוָה Yhovah (yeh-ho-vaw') n/p.
it's root, (where it came from)

H1961 הָיָה hayah (haw-yaw) v. which is “I AM”.
is a verb or not. Just answer the QUESTION. Yes or No

and two, where did the vowels come from to make up the name Yhovah.

Just answer the questions, and don't worry if the Holy Spirit is with me or not, the truth will tell. so just answer the questions.
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Old 11-05-2018, 06:43 AM
 
Location: Willamette Valley, Oregon
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I grew up as a Jehovah's Witness. That is the name I associate with god. I left the religion a long time ago, but the name still sticks with me.
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Old 11-05-2018, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
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when the truth hits it hurts. H1961 הָיָה hayah (haw-yaw) v. which is “I AM”. IS A VERB.


verbs are not NOUNS, meaning verbs are not personal Names. vowels was "ADDED" to the tetragrammaton to get these false Name of God. men just gave God a name.
and when men add to the word of God they put the noose around their neck.

adding to the word of God is a NO NO. the apostle Paul was correct, Romans 1:25 "Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen".

VERBS are not NOUNS. no personal name is a verb. verbs can be titles or appellative.
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